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Message # 58334.1.2

Subject: Re:I have an idea ... and a video ;)

Date: Sat 29/06/13 19:13:50 GMT

Name: MK

Email: wamtec@comcast.net

Website:

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I agree with Edr - it's an admirable idea, but would face major logistical hurdles.....and when you make comparisons to the site http://archive.org/index.php and what they do, you are neglecting to mention two major factors that they can do that a private wetlook organization cannot do....i.e

1) The http://archive.org/index.php mostly only uses Public Domain media where there is no copyright, or media that has been donated by various charitable foundations. There is really very very little public domain wetlook media (only if you are interested in wetlook scenes from old movies and tv shows that are over 50 years old and where the copyright has expired), and so the only media that can be archived would be donated media from wetlook producers who would be willing to support the site with donations from their archives. I have no problems in doing that and donating some of my old archival scenes for such a site....btw....Graham already set up a concept for preserving vintage archives....with the site he and JJ created called www.vintagewet.com -- so this is not a new idea....it has already been done before by Graham and he and JJ set up a great archives site that was supported by donations of media from Wetfan, Roger and others. Sadly.....that site has been gathering dust for the last 5 years.....because the webmaster JJ had a serious illness and disappeared (we think he passed away of cancer)......so rather than create a new wetlook archive......I would prefer to see somebody contacting Graham and offering to take over as the new webmaster for that site...and to resurrect it and try to get more donations from more wetlook producers etc. So...I would prefer to donate media to the Vintagewet.com archives site than to see a new archive being created. But I am willing to contribute to whomever sets up the biggest and best archives site. But this is not the real problem.....the biggest problem is this....

2) Nobody can do what http://archive.org site can do.......cos they have the power to support the expenses of their archives by forcibly taking money away from U.S. tax payers in order to support their costs.....because that site is owned and operated by the U.S. GOVERNMENT.....they are a government entity that funds itself using U.S. tax payer dollars. They can do whatever they like....cos they have the power of the IRS that taxes U.S. tax payers and takes their monies and then redistributes the money it takes to support their own follies....like the NEA (National Endowment for the Arts). As a U.S. tax payer you do not have an option on whether you would like to support the Archives.org site or the NEA.....they just tax you and take your money and they decide what follies that wish to give grants to. This is no different to the UK.....where the BBC TV company are a quasi government entity that can fund it's own follies...because it has the POWER to TAX every UK citizen.....cos in the UK it is mandatory by law that you need to buy an annual TV licence to watch any tv channel in the ...which costs 145 Pounds ($225) per year.....so every UK citizen has to pay an annual tax to the BBC to watch tv in the UK (even if they do not watch the BBC channels and only watch other channels.....but bless the kindhearted BBC....they are so kind....they will give you a nice discount and you only have to pay 49 Pounds...if you have a BLACK AND WHITE tv......huh !!!......when was the last time you saw a black and white tv that you could buy in any store.....ha ha). So.....the http://archive.org/index.php site is a government entity and a folly that is funded by U.S. tax payers....who have no choice in the matter same goes for the BBC in the UK.

The only way you can finance the hosting costs to maintain such an archive .....is that you have to be a charitable person yourself who finances all the hosting costs yourself.....which is what Nigel does with this forum....and what Graham has done for many years by self financing the hosting costs to maintain the vintagewet.com archives. Private citizens do not have the power to impose taxes on people and force them to pay for your follies....as the http://archive.org/index.php site does in the USA and the BBC does in the UK......and you will never be able to get sufficient private donations to support your monthly hosting costs....and here are 2 perfect examples of what I mean. Take this forum for example.....it is partially funded by private donations from Nigel's banner sponsors, but the majority of the funding comes from Nigel's own pocket, so he deserves praise for his services to the wetlook community. Similarly, Flaviu and I own TheWambank site.....which is a very big archve of some 10,000 hosted clips, 14,000 web video clips and 20,000+ wetlook photo archives....and those archives occupy over 450 GB of disk space....so that a pretty decent sized archival site. We created a partial funding mechanism where folks can support the site with credits....and that financial support has never been enough to pay for our server costs over the last 5 years, and the financial support Flaviu and I get for our Wambank site is only about 30% of what it costs us to lease the server for that site, so our Wambank site is no different to Nigel's forum....i.e. the majority of the costs to keep the Wambank site online are self funded my Flaviu and myself....so we should really change the name of the site from theWambank.com to TheWambank.org - because it is non profit site that is self funded by Flaviu and myself.

So....when we have a Wambank archives site that has over 450 gigs of archival videos and pics....and that can only raise about 30% of the costs of what it takes to host all that media.....I do not see how Wetlook.es will be able to raise even half of what it takes for the hosting space to support such an archive.....because you cannot impose taxes on people and force them to pay for your site (as http://archive.org/index.php can) ....and nobody will want to make private financial contributions to see your archives....until you have collected at least 100 GB worth of media FIRST..... so the only way to do this archives project in Spain would be to do what Nigel and Graham and Flaviu and I have all done in the past....ie. you have to be the benefactor yourself....and be willing to pay for the hosting costs for yourself for at least 5 years at around $450 per month for the server costs..

Anyway.....I am willing to support whatever wetlook blog sites or archives sites would like to have some media.....but my personal preference is that Graham and JJ already made an excellent archives site at www.vintagewet.com - and even though webmaster JJ has gone now.....Graham has very kindly kept the site online at his own expense and continues to support it.....and I would like to see that archives site be managed by a new webmaster and to resume taking in new donations from wetlook producers and their collections etc.

In reply to Message (58334.1)

Re:I have an idea ... and a video ;)

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com Sat 29/06/13 17:46:49 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com

It's a novel idea but as a producer (and I'm sure many other producers will agree) I couldn't support the idea as it stands. The reason is copyright. Every image or video is created by someone. By law they own the copyright to that image or video. It doesn't matter if the image was freely shared or intended for purchase, the copyright is owned by the person who created the image and unless copyright was specifically sold, no one owns the rights to any image, even if they purchased a copy. Every image we sell is a copy of the original, but we do not allow anyone to resell, trade or reproduce any image without our specific permission, as we are the only copyright holder of all images we produce or create. Of course, from time to time most free images end up on other sites and most producers don't get too mad, so long as the images were not intended for sale by the producer, (such as samples) and so long as the images are properly credited and watermarks remain intact. But it's still polite to ask first for permission.

On your site, you wrote:

The objectives of the association are:

1.The preservation of the material on a website for access to partners. Active members will have access to all the photos and videos of the web, if the project is successful, over time this site will become a big archive.

2.Try to pick up the greatest number of works in pictures and videos donations from producers and fans.

3.Provide members with a place to display and maintain their production indefinitely.

4.The creation of new quality material for partners.

Herer are some of my own concerns;

Referring to #1, Preservation of material. I would not object so long as permission to use each and every image is given by the copyright holder. Even better would be that you share a copy of the email or letter specifically showing permission from the copyright owner's permission

Referring to #2, Picture and video donations. Once again any image donated must be accompanied by permission from the copyright owner. Images provided by fans which did not create the image or video themselves, should not be accepted without the permission of the copyright holder of the image or video, likewise images produced by the fans makes them copyright owners and they should also give permission for each and every image they donate.

Reffering to #3, A place to display and maintain their production indefinitely. Again, this would be based on if the copyright owner of preserved images agrees to this.

I'm fine with #4 as it stands. Going back to copyright, I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but unfortunately producers have to safeguard their interests which is why copyright laws exist, otherwise anyone can steal intellectual property and make money from it. So long as permission to use each and every image is given, you may find lawsuits piling up at your front door and this would be bad for you too, so you may want to consider keeping everything legal to also protect yourself. Now if you cannot find the original copyright owner to the image, you're out of luck. Even if the producer dies, the image they created doesn't automatically become "public domain", copyright goes to next of kin. The only other way around copyright is to purchase the rights to the image, not just the image itself.

It's not a bad idea, but it involves legal issues which you and potential members might want to look into first, but good luck with it anyway

Sincerely EdR

In reply to Message (58334)

I have an idea ... and a video ;)

By rillater - info@yobidu.com Sat 29/06/13 16:18:01 GMT

Website: http://wetlook.es/association/idea

hi guys, I have in mind a new project and wanted to know your opinion.

I take time thinking about the problems surrounding the conservation of wetlook productions. I have seen in many cases, very good material gone when disappeared the web that contained it, with no chance of seeing it again, in other cases, for space problems on the websites of the producers, we see good material is definitely removed.

Wetlook photos and videos are a minority artistic expression, and like all digital art deserves to be defended. for that reason I thought of creating a virtual non-profit association with the target of conservation of such material. I was inspired for this idea in general initiatives for the conservation of material found on the Internet, such as http://archive.org/index.php / www.archive.org . my idea is create a wetlook archive, and promote the creation of good wetlook videos.

I created a website where I explain my idea in detail and where those interested can exchange opinions, is http://wetlook.es/association/idea where I have also created a form to see the interest you may have this idea and a forum to discuss the idea.

I am very interested to know your opinion and if you find it interesting to create a project of this type.

I also uploaded a new video with a preview of some videos that I wish they were in that wetlook archive http://wetlook.es/video/view/127

I wait your feedback

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