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Message # 51649.1.2

Subject: Question Re:Vidown and DownThemAll!

Date: Sun 28/08/11 04:45:37 GMT

Name: Malvineous gb

Email: mrnemesis@ntlworld.com

Website:

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You're interfering with download managers by intentionally adding random bytes to Content-Length? That's pretty abusive. It's always frustrated me that browsers ignore Content-Length, because I can never be quite sure that I've got a whole download (lots of servers drop connections randomly under load), and then Internet Explorer always returned the cached copy of the incomplete file instead of trying again (that may be fixed now). The reason Alexander Clauss never implemented Content-Length checking in the iCab browser for the Macintosh was due to the number of sites that return incorrect figures for this header, which was hugely frustrating as it meant trying to get iCab's resume to recognise that a file wasn't complete when the browser swore that it was ...

 

I always feel contempt for anyone who wilfully violates specifications. There is always another answer that doesn't involve lying to the client software. The worst one I saw was the MacHTTP web server which would actually deliberately send back corrupted files under certain circumstances, which was liable to crash your software and possibly the whole computer back before Mac OS X came out.

 

Download managers provide numerous services: a) download several files at once, b) download different segments of the same file at once, c) resume broken downloads, d) queue files so you don't have to spoon feed the downloading. MP3 stores tend to zip up all your files for you, but that's not as practical when every download is larger than a zip full of MP3s. The fact that you need a download manager is a testament to the lack of imagination on the part of browser authors: only iCab on the Mac had comprehensive download manager built in, and Internet Explorer for Macintosh had a download manager that supported resuming and queueing. The Windows world loses out hugely here.

 

Now, you don't have an issue with downloading multiple files at once. The problem of software grabbing multiple segments of the same file at once, should be an easy one to deal with: when an incoming Range header is received, check whether the final byte offset equals the final byte of the file. If it does, then the user agent is attempting to resume a broken download. If it isn't, the user agent is trying to download multiple portions at once. In this case, you can either return 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable to reject the request, or do what I did at WetInRed, and simply return 200 OK together with the complete file to simply pretend that we don't understand ranges at all (may not be the right thing to do ;-) That way, you annoy greedy download managers, and permit both queueing and resuming. (The only reason this isn't all still running at WetInRed is their incorrect understanding of memory usage limited me to five concurrent PHP script executions so my passthrough script became a denial of service bottleneck. It's also probably a WTF that Linux doesn't offer a more accurate way to measure memory consumption, but that IS a difficult problem to deal with as text pages can presumably be shared by different users.)

In reply to Message (51649.1) None Re:Vidown and DownThemAll!

By Anonymous - uu Sat 27/08/11 21:09:03 GMT

Website:


It's not a bug. it's intentional. I do not support download managers.
In reply to Message (51649) Question Vidown and DownThemAll!

By Malvineous - mrnemesis@ntlworld.com gb Sat 27/08/11 14:48:55 GMT

Website:


There's a bug in Vidown's Perl-based passthrough system wherein the Content-Length of downloads is randomly mis-reported by a few bytes (but always by the same amount for the same file – I don't know what he's doing wrong, although as a Perl programmer I may be able to figure out where he's going wrong). Browsers ignore incorrect Content-Length headers (sadly) but DownThemAll! is smart enough to check it, in order to support automatic resuming. In this case, however, Vidown doesn't provide resume support (which is pretty trivial really) so DownThemAll! is trapped in an infinite loop re-downloading complete 400 MB movie files because the site won't report the right size.

 

When you put in a large order with someone like Erik Elsas, it would be very useful to be able to queue up all the files and leave it running as there's hours of downloading to get through. I don't use DownThemAll! for acceleration – in fact I successfully campaigned for better support for intelligent unaccelerated downloading. I just want a queue facility, so I can leave all the downloads going without having to sit at my PC for hours nannying it. I had a much larger set of files to download from Mostwam, but they use a different system ad the queue completed flawlessly while I spent most of the day away from my PC.

 

I reported this bug ages ago to Erik who passed it on to Patrick at the Mothership, who refuses to look at the problem. I don't imagine there's any way to persuade him to actually fix this?

 

(I doubt he'd let me add resuming support to his code, either.)

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