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Message # 78331.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 Subject: Date: Thu 05/09/19 17:44:16 GMT Name: MikeyPHX |
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It’s not that copyright laws are more strict than privacy laws, it’s that they are more enforced, as corporations enforce laws made for other corporations. On YouTube it gets absurd with some companies well known for blocking content which constitutes fair use by US, EU and all other laws known to me, but hey, they can block it according to YouTubes TOS and there is nothing to do about it. It’s an ongoing problem that made a lot of YouTubers even end their careers, but hey, the famous SME (or Sony Music Entertainment, they don’t even have the decency to use full name) and Viacom, the two most well known blockers, still breal fair use and parody illegally, and you won’t get any justice with YouTube unless you are a youtuber with at least 3-4 million followers and “family friendly content”. Saw laws vs reality is a very different issue. That being said, while videos are tricky, as it’s often hard to tell who they focus on and who is background, if a photographer puts a photo up which is clearly of a person and the person says he/she did not agree (and proves it’s him/her) that also gets taken down from places like Instagram or Facebook, at least when it comes to continental EU accounts (the UK has not implemented, weirdly implemented or even asked to legally not have to implement, so many EU laws, that I’ll stick to continental EU, where I know the rules)
Still as for copyright laws, they are not all that fool proof, as you know that downloading a movie from a Warez site or something is legal. As is watching it. Saving it etc. what is illegal is only reuploading it. Which is why torrents can be dangerous, while downloads from sites can not. Another thing is VPNs. Netflix or hulu try to detect VPNs and block them so much, as geoblocking is just a corporate thingy, not a law. Actually not really legal in many jurisdictions. So using VPNs to access content is legal and as the corporations love to geoblock, they have to put bans in their terms of service and detect vpns. Still proof would be hard, so they don’t play content if a vpn js detected, but don’t ban. And smart vpns still easily full them. So I would not be so sure about the strength of those copyright laws, they seem pretty week to me ;)
As for Street View it’s banned in Germany. The images of the major cities are ancient, 2010 max. Google lost the privacy battle and thought to maybe try on with minor changes, but than decided never to go back to Germany. They kept the images made but have to jump through hoops and blur out entire buildings, which is an option everywhere I think, but only Germans really use it, so street view can look funny. Austria caved in recently, but only parts of Vienna were online last time I checked. Not a universally popular decision there. And street view, which is even in Israel, Arab Emirates or sensitive regions of Russia (except closed towns) or the US is more of an interactive map than a privacy threat, so Germany opposing it as the last one standing really speaks a lot about their views on privacy.
As for your police story, I guess the UK is much closer to the Us than EU in many aspects (like for instance they give out full names and photos of suspects, which few EU countries do, most blur out faces and give just name and first letter of surname), but still I guess the cops were looking at the photos to see sick stuff, as in close ups of undressed children. Taking photos of wetlook as in clothed people probably means you don’t have those. However (assuming cops in your city actually know laws, as that is not always the case) it would be interesting to see what they would say if you asked if you could publish those online. I’m American, but a, an expat in Poland which based most of it’s privacy laws on Germany and here I can take photos of everything and everyone I like, but as for uploads? Tons of situations can’t be uploaded (like law breaking with visible face which should instead be shown to the cops) as well as images where the person is the main subject without approval. So where I live the cops would also OK beach candids, but if I posted them (and a subject found out, which is probably a slim chance) I could be in trouble.
Not unhelpful. As you can see there is a battle with candids on this forum, with mainly users from continental Europe, Germany, Benelux, Switzerland, Austria, against them. Those people live in countries with specific privacy laws were published candids are illegal. And they like their systems (Europe likes it’s privacy) and thinks they are fine. Why I am not against candids and I think European laws are too strict, I find it hypocritical to blast somebody for copyright laws, while ignoring privacy laws, which the average joe, finds much more important in daily life. And I just pointed that out as I’m not a fan of hypocrisy. Also as I said in the first post, his and maybe yours take on copyright would mean we should take down half of youtube, facebook and Instagram. 98 percent of Facebook users have a background photo which is just found online. Very few know how made it or give any credit. So we have to keep copyright within reason. As MK’s customers by his fountain series for the unique content not the filler if present, especially if the filler is available on youtube, this is really a non issue. Especially compared to privacy law issues with candids which are a hot topic. So the ferocious attack on a legend was weird. Especially as, well as you said yourself, the guy is not even that good with copyright laws himself.
Anyway, we will probably get bans for this OT discussion, which while interesting is well OT, so not sure we should continue, but if you want to comment, I’ll remember to check this topic and reply. If you want to discuss the subject without testing the mods, you can always contact me at (name of capital of Burundi)(dot)dreaming(at)gmail(dot)com - sorry for the complicated spelling, the capital of course being Bujumbura. It’s just that it seems spam bots now know what to do with (dot) and (at) so you have to get creative. ;) |
In reply to Message (78331.1.2.1.1.1.1)  Copyright laws are stronger than privacy laws in most countries
By jollywetfellow -
It is in fact very common for youtubes to be taken down because of breach of copyright, and one of the longest-established channels of UK dashcam compilations (WelshDrive) was recently banned from Youtube completely for alleged copyright violations (which he denies). Whereas I have never heard of any being taken down because of breach of privacy; and that is despite the fact that they mostly show people behaving badly or at least making a complete fool of themselves, which the subjects are much more likely to want taken down than are people filmed enjoying themselves on the beach. And there are similar vids on youtube from most countries in the world; in a few faces are blurred, but not in most.
I have just done a simple test of zooming out Google maps to show the whole of Europe, then moving the 'Streetview man', and the only countries which don't light up blue (ie the only ones in which Streetview is not available) are Germany, Austria, Belarus, Moldova and Bosnia-Herzegovina. Even in Germany there is on-street imagery available, without blurred faces, in the major cities. Given that everybody takes photos and videos wherever they go then posts them on Facebook, it is not really practicable for any country to have laws prohibiting online publication of imagery of third parties in a public place.
As for the inclusion of 'minors', I have twice now had my beach photos checked out by the Police, in both cases they included children as well as the adults which were my main 'target', and in both cases the Police saw no cause for concern.
Whether MK did anything wrong or not (and it was at least very cheeky to simply lift somebody else's footage for inclusion in something you yourself are selling), trying to suggest that X_Wet_X was wrong in publishing his vids in the first place is completely unhelpful. It is both inaccurate and, more to the point, likely to discourage X_Wet_X and others from making available wetlook content for our enjoyment. As ytsen said, X_Wet_X himself is guilty of (in my view) excessive objection to wetlook content posted to the Forum by others [and if my guess is correct has already been well punished for it!] but that is no reason to make up spurious objections to his own content. |
| In reply to Message (78331.1.2.1.1.1) Ok, so UK does not follow EU regulations (as usual), however....
By MikeyPHX -
So UK laws are unlike EU ones and closer to Russian ones? OK. If this is true I stand corrected. I mentioned the local regulations as A LOT of people, being EU based (like Germany, Austria, France, Netherlands, Poland) or near EU (Switzerland) claim all around the world people should be asked their opinion, or faces should be censored or uploads are totally illegal etc and this is actually true for a vast minority of countries, mostly Germany, but as no expert I assumed it was all EU laws. Anyway, I think we can agree on all MK’s Russian clips being perfectly legal. If this is the same in the UK, or wherever X_Wet_X filmed his, his is also, though his has quite a lot of minors, not really in the background, so it would be more iffy in many more countries, but even if both are legal.
As for copyright law on Youtubes, well basically if taking a short clip was deemed illegal in real life (even it is by law) we would have much more than say Article 13, we would have to close down have of YouTube and half of the Internet in general, as most stuff is copied, re- copied it. For it to be plagiarism and illegal by laws of most countries (so we can say universal) it has to be a for profit thing copied into another for profit thing. Plus of course it has to be legal, so if made in most EU countries, publication would be legal only if subjects agreed, but again, that aside. MK’s camera guys taking youtubes (non-profit) for filler would not be a copyright issue in a vast majority of countries.
As for why I thought it was the UK. Well, probably mainly because of... your stuff among others. As a vast majority of sea candids seem to be from the UK. He uses a .de email address, but if that was from Germany, with the most strict privacy laws on the planet he would be a fool to post it to Youtube as that could even result in jail time, unless all subject singed waivers. So I ruled out Germany. I know nothing about Latin American laws, but judging that there is obviously fetish content from that continent (mostly Venezuela I think) with MINORS often uploaded to YouTube (and sometimes deleted by YouTube) I guess they have no laws or don’t enforce them. |
| In reply to Message (78331.1.2.1.1) Forget about the UK; the gist is....
By jollywetfellow -
Although MK is flying the UK flag (as he is of course entitled by birthright) the laws he is talking about are US laws, and my take on what he says is that X_Wet_X probably does have a copyright claim, and could require that his clip be removed from the video for sale (though I don't know why X_Wet_X would bother when he's not making any money from it himself anyway, and by posting the link to his own free video he has now ensured nobody will buy MK's video to get that clip so MK won't make any money from that clip either!).
Why Mikey thinks X_Wet_X filmed his clip in the UK I have no idea - I think that one's from Latin America somewhere though quite a few of X_Wet_X's vids are from Russia just like MK's - you will recognise some of the fountains in his earlier ones. And Mikey is also wrong about UK laws; whilst there is nothing here comparable to the Stop-a-Douchebag campaign there are numerous people posting videos on Youtube of poor road user behaviour in the UK, including people such as Cyclegaz, CyclingMikey [no relation, I assume?!] and Silvio Diego - and others on motorbikes whom I don't follow - who video the faces of offenders and often get them prosecuted from the video evidence. So had X_Wet_X made the video in the UK he would not have been breaking any laws that I know of.
Quite why MK puts fillers in at all is a bit of a mystery to me - I just find them an irritating distraction and detraction from the main subject which I bought the video for; what's so magic about 30 minutes rather than 28 minutes? |
In reply to Message (78331.1.2.1)  Re:Your comment is weird X_Wet_X - read legal perspective here
By MK -
wamtec@comcast.net
Thanks for the clarification. To clarify a bit further, all the media posted on my websites is either subject to the 2257 laws regarding model releases or licensing agreements which are required to be held on file per 2257 document retention requirements and or they are subject to the 1998 DMCA laws (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) regarding copyright. The 2257 laws only relate to our modelling shoots and are not applicable to candid media. The DMCA laws apply to all media and there is a required procedure in place requiring hosters to takedown media if copyright claims are made, and we comply with all DMCA takedown requests (that is how our former sites at TheWambank and Topwam were managed, and how Youtube works today).
The Russian series is licensed by me from SG Productions in Moscow, who produce original material that is licensed thru Wamtec. Over 300 1hr and 30 minute videos have been produced by SG and uploaded to my server. As Mikey says, and as X wet X has highlighted, in 4-5 cases out of 300+ videos the SG videos may have 2-3 minutes of "filler" scenes at the end of the video. This was probably done in order to make each file 30 mins so, when there was 28 mins of video some Youtubes were added at the end to fill out the 30 mins. I do not edit the videos, I just post what SG sends to my server, so this is not something I monitor. I have 17 websites and over 23,000 videos posted and I post over 200 more videos each month to various sites, so these videos are just "spaghetti on a wall" and I just throw stuff up there and see what folks like or not.
I should mention that SG in Moscow has also made several contacts with other Youtubers this year as well, and has made deals to acquire their media, so the new 2019 season (just completed last week) will include media not only from Moscow, but from several other cameramen in other Russian cities. To anyone who thinks I am getting rich off candid wetlook media, just ask Ytsen about his Songkran water festival videos...e.g. 5 years of sales would not even pay for an airticket to fly to Thailand and the Russian series do not even cover the costs for my server or hiring Sergey and his crew. Kinda ironic that folks love to complain about a little guy with paltry sales when they are perfectly happy to give Youtube a free pass and they do not criticize Youtube for making 40 Billion per month in ad revenues from all the media they stream from Youtube uploaders.
You may have noticed, that I have now stopped posting The Russian Fountains pics to this forum and to UMD, and instead I just post a link to my Twitter feed and website galleries. That is because there are too many trolls and complainers these days on the forums, so I stopped posting imbedded pics, so only those people who wish to see my media now should visit my links. I should add that I post dozens of free videos to my Wamflix streaming site each month, and I giveaway hundreds of free downloads at the Megastore each month via my competition prizes as well.
The Megastore site is in full compliance with 2257 and DMCA regulations, and if there is a DMCA claim all one has to do is file a complaint per usual DMCA procedure and it will be acted upon swiftly http://megastore.wamtec.com/2257.php
If you have a problem, just email me and I will take care of it. My email address is plastered all over the place
This is why I am using this forum less and less these days, and preferring to use Twitter instead. I think I would like to revert to the way things used to be in the early 1990's ..i.e. no forums and I used to communicate with only those folks who are subscribed to my private email mailing list.
MK
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In reply to Message (78331.1.2)  Your comment is weird X_Wet_X - read legal perspective here
By MikeyPHX -
MK’s Russian series are all original content, except for when a batch ends from time to time and the short last remaining part of a vid is filled up by Youtubes, which maybe happened 5 times over the 200 plus volumes. So it’s more filler than part of the product and nobody ever had any problems with that. I’m not even sure if MK does this or his Russian photographers or editors. It’s never been a big deal, as clips are reuploaded etc numerous times. So I don’t see why you are making a fuss. Sure, technically under some more extreme copyright laws in some countries you may have a case, but as those are candids done and posted without the agreement of people in them, you technically broke laws first and much more than MK did if you see it that way. MK’s candid videos are made in RUSSIA, where laws state that all filming in public AND uploading videos filmed in public to sites (paid or free is legal). Which means that MK’s vids are totally legal. And also it means the Russian Stop Cham (Stop A Douchebag) channels on Youtube can exist and upload without the offenders agreement and any censorship. So generally Mk is totally obeying all laws while offering his products and is a Wetlook legend. I know you also have been here for a long time, but this outburst is very weird as taking a YouTube vid for filler is nothing legally compared to making such a vid in the UK and uploading it in the first place, as the UK has different laws than Russia... |
In reply to Message (78331.1)  Contains stolen content
By X_Wet_X -
X_Wet_X0@yahoo.de
Website: https://www.youtube.com/user/XWetX/videos The video SGHD206 contains a scene of which is from one of my videos! I provided this videos (to which I hold the copyright) out of generosity for free on my youtube-channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eAIenqBr-E . I do not appreciate it that other people are making profit from my materials by selling it as their own! |
In reply to Message (78331)  23 videos and a wetlook competition.
By MK -
wamtec@comcast.net
23 more videos added to the Megastore today, including 8 candid wetlook videos.
For those who like to play Wetlook Trivia Games, you can win a free download of your choice by naming at least 2 of the 4 famous actresses depicted in the wetlook competition photo posted @
All the galleries and vids @ http://megastore.wamtec.com
MK
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