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Message # 71575.11.2.1

Subject: Re:quick question for MK

Date: Mon 16/10/17 03:06:37 GMT

Name: MK

Email: wamtec@comcast.net

Website:

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I did several media exchange deals with the Gagon producer (Kenji) over the last several years, mainly because I thought that his media was good, and would sell well in North America and Europe. Some of the UK producers like Artscene also did deals to license his Japanese media for sale in the UK as well. We thought that seeing as Japan is a Japanese language market only, where websites are only in Japanese and where non Japanese people had a hard time to navigate Gagon's website, that it would be worthwhile for myself and Artscene to become agents of Gagon and to place his clips on our Engliish language websites where it would be easier for non-Japanese to order those scenes. Sadly the sales of Gagon media on my U..S site and on the UK artscene site were very poor and there was little interest in non-Japanese customers to order those scenes....so we discontinued being Gagon's agent. He seems to make almost all of his sales to Japanese and other Asian countries only.

But then Gagon is rather like Eromaxx/Allwam/Tainster.....i.e. they do not rely on producing wetlook media to support their business expenses. Just like Allwam, Gagon makes the majority of their business income is producing mainstream hardcore porn, and wetlook is merely a small sideline they do. Bottom line is, Gagon could not sustain it;s operations by producing wetlook alone, and it;s main business is mainstream hardcore porn and many other non-wetlook fetishes they produce......i.e.lthey can sell more clips producing arm-pit sniffing videos than producing wetlook.

You cannot operate in Japan unless you speak the Japanese language.....moreover the costs for hiring models in Japan are the highest in the world.....so high in fact that for the cost of hiring just 1 Japanese model for the day......I can hire 3 American models or 10 Thai or Filipino models for the day.

Language plays a big role in determining how successful you can be at producing and selling wetlook media......and Flaviu and I have this discussion all the time because we prodiuce several series in Romania and Hungary together...and the language spoken by the models is a big factor....e.g. when a model speaks English to the fans she can easily develop a cult following, which is one of the reasons Leon's models are so popular. But with our Romanian and Hungarian models who mostly do not speak English, they are less popular than English speaking models who can chat with the fans on the forums etc.

Non English speaking models are unable to show their personalities and are mostly seen as objects....like department store mannequins wearing nice clothes....whereas English speaking models develop a rapport and cult following with the fans and garner the. highest sales because they are seen by the fans as "people"....not objects.

Bear in mind that all my customer stats over the years show that wetlook fans are mostly coming from 3 main countries....i.e. 80% of wetlook fetishists come from The UK USA and Germany, 10% are from Canada and other EU nations and the other 10% are small pockets of fans in South America, Australia and Asia. 99% of all wetlook fans are males......i.e. almost every time we get a credit card transaction with a female name, it turns out to be a stolen credit card. In fact I have asked if our cc provider can ban all female names on credit cards from being used on our sites because most of them come back as chargebacks due to the card being stolen or used without permission, but our credit card company says we cannot place a ban on female credit card names.

Curiously.....when I did media exchange deals with Gagon and so they sold blocks of our Caucasian models videos on their site and we did the same and sold blocks of their Japanese models videos on our site......the results were exactly the same....i.e. the Japanese models videos sold very poorly on our site, and Gagon said he did not wish to continue doing this because he had sold very few Caucasian model videos on his site in Japan.....so this proved that Japanese wetlook fans will only buy wetlook media featuring Asian models and they are not interested in Caucasian models media at all.

BTW....you may wonder why I fall to mention the Indian wetlook culture.....and that is because that is not an active marketplace where there are Indian fans willing to buy wetlook. China, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh accont for 42% of all humans on Planet Earth. There are 3000-4000 people who visit this forum and if wetlook was a wordwide attraction we would expect to see 42% of the people visiting this forum being Indian or Chinese. But instead all we see is a couple of Indian wet fans, including Hazzaz and no Chinese visitors. I have had over 13000 people in my customer records buying tapes and ordering clips.....and I never see any credit card addresses from India and I only have 2 customers from China.....so Indians and Chinese are not wetlook supporttert who buy media, despite being 40% of the world population. Indians mostly look at free media site only. Why is it that India produces 6-8 times more movies every year than Hollywood does,,,,,and wetlook is used as a "cliche" in almost every movie they make. The answer is....wetlook is not viewed the same way as westerner sees it.....wetlook in indian films is a metaphorical device.....to depict sex and foreplay.....because Indian film censors will not allow graphic depictions of nudity and sex.....so they use wetlook rains scenes as a device and metaphor for sexual foreplay.

Producers who make tv commercials are very good at using objects to sell their products........Cadbury's chocolate has been doing ads like this in the UK for 50 years...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX9zPKYaM3E

In reply to Message (71575.11.2)

quick question for MK

By Silas - Mon 16/10/17 00:31:20 GMT

Website:

Did you ever try to sell your Asian wetlook TO Asian countries? Reason I ask is that wetlook is common in Japanese gravure sites, as well as sites like gagon office lady, and a lot of other Japanese fetish sites. Gagon has been going for years, so I imagine there's a healthy market for it in Japan. My understanding is that any Japanese porn or fetish material is legal but heavily regulated.

In reply to Message (71575.11)

OT :Is the wetlook community racist? 99,9 percent models are white...

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Sun 15/10/17 20:48:54 GMT

Website:

Note the OT in the header, because this issue has nothing to do with wetlook per se and is more about hiring practices and skill requirements to do a job, which in our case, those skill requirements are far more extensive than the average wetlook producer, Sure, any model can get wet in the shower or bath tub so there are no special skills required. However, my company has never been a wetlook only company, and since 1992 we have been producing videos in 3 major genres (Wetlook, Underwater and Scuba, Messy pies fights and miud scenes) and so we needed to hire models who had the specific skills we needed in order to do those scenes. When I left school I wanted to be a policeman, but I could never be a cop because I did not meet their 5ft 9inch height requirements, and I could not qualify to be a firefighter either because I could not meet the chest and lung capacity requirements for the job. The most skilled productions we do involve underwater work where we require any model we hire to be

- very proficient at swimming

- able to swim underwater with their eyes open, pose underwater, do synchro ballet, and be able to hold their breath for at least 1 minute

- for our location scenes in open water where we use scuba gear, by law the model needs to be a certified scuba diver with a current PADI certificate proving they are a certified diver.

We hire all our models from 3 different modelling agencies in South Florida, as well as websites like ModelMayhem, and OneModelPlace and those agencies list all the skill requirements of their models, and so we select models based on the skills they advertise, and we only select models who claim to have a proficiency at swimming as one of their skills. All of those moidel agencies and model websites have a roster of models to choose from that is comparable to the population demographics we have in Florida. And those demographics by race and ethnicity as per government stats are:

Florida Statewide is .54% Caucasian, 24% Hispanic 17% African-American, 3% Asian

USA Nationally is 65% Caucasian, 17% Hispanic 13% African-American, 5% Asian

All the models agencies and websites we use are well represented with minority groups in a similar ratio to our Florida Statewide averages. There are plenty of available ethnic models in our area to choose from, but the key thing is the underwater skill requirements that we require for our shoots (swimming proficiency, skilled at underwater breathholding, and for some projects we require PADI certified scuba divers). This is an area where we have found found numerous Hispanic models who have the skills we need, but very few African-American models who have those skills. We have hired dozens of Hispanic and Asian models for our shoots, but we have only found a few African-American models that have the underwater skills we need. Why is that ?

Well.....I won't stereotype an ethnic group the same way that the African American community like to stereotype Caucasians,and they say things like "White Men Can't Dance"....which Hollywood turned into a movie. You can look up the statistics on the number of Olympic Swimming medals won by African Americans over the last 50 years to see that lack of swimming skills in the African-American community is a problem. In fact, it is a major problem in Florida, because according to the Florida Department of Heath Florida is #1 in the the USA for drowning deaths in the USA....and that drowning deaths among African Americans are twice the number of deaths per capita of Causasians. The Center for Disease Control report that "swimming pool drowning rates among blacks aged 5–19 years is 5.5 times higher than those among whites in the same age group".

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6319a2.htm?s_cid=mm6319a2_w

This is a cultural problem....i.e. minorities do not learn to swim at an early age the way that Caucasians normally do.....so the Florida Schools teach special swimming programs to try and combat this problem in the African American community.. Anyway, it is a statistical fact that African Americans do not learn to swim at the same rate as Caucasian kids do, so you have a much higher percentage of African Americans who grow to be adult and can't swim, than Caucasians.

Therefore when if comes to hiring models, the ethnic minorities are well represented on the modelling agency rosters, but over the last 15 years, our experience has been that hiring Hispanic models is no problem, and we have featured many Hispanics models on our sites....but finding African American models who have the swimming skills we require is very hard to find and so we only have 5-6 African American models who had the skill;s and worked for us.. All you have to do to see how difficult it is to do underwater fashion modelling. Look at the numerous "Next Top Model" tv shows in many different countries.....and see how hopeless most girls are at posing underwater....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdbcY5CANfU&t=22m33s

So, when we hire models our primary objective is to hire models of ANY ethnic background that have the REQUIRED skills we need to do the job, and whoever is available and has he skills.....we will hire them.

Just to give you more background about myself and the videos I have been producing for the last 26 years......before I became a full time wam producer in 1991 I worked and lived in Asia for 12 years. In that time I lived in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan and went on numerous business trips to South Korea, The Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia.....so I knew every Asian country and culture very well, and so I developed an interest in Asian women. I got married to an Asian girl and we have been happily married for the last 36 years. My wife was my original model in the 1980's but she grew bored with the subject matter and did not mind me hiring other Asian girls to be my models. Being in a mixed marriage for 36 years and spending a dozen years living in Asia I would hardly consider myself a racist....otherwise I would not have chosen to live in Asia for so many years. Now that I live in Florida I would ideally like to hire more Asian models....but they are hard to find given that Florida only has 2-3% Asian people living there and the majority of Asian "adult" models live in California.

Back in the early 1990's I started going back to Thailand every year for Songkran and making videos of the girls at the water festival. By that time I had moved to Florida so I was making wetlook videos in Florida with Caucasian and Hispanic models, as well as going on trips to Thailand to make videos with Asian models as well. I was itching to move to Thailand and buy some property and start makiing wetlook videos full time in Thailand.. A german wetlook producer had already moved to The Philippines and satrted his own site called Soaked Pinays and I admired his site ....

https://www.soakedpinays.com/home

So I thought what this German producer was doing was interesting.....and I wanted to do the same thing in Thailand as well. I had an Australian friend who was moving to Thailand and he wanted to buy a night club and pool party business.....and we found the perfect night club we wanted to buy as joint partners in Pattaya. The club was on 3 levels, had an outdoor pool on the mid level, and an underwater grotto bar in the basement where you could watch the girls via underwater viewing windows at the bar. We were in negotiations to buy this club where my friend would run the club and the pool parties and I was going to set up website with webcams and set up a membership site to watch the girls in the pool etc. Sadly the deal fell thru because we were approached by local mafia types and local police wanting payoffs or else they would plant drugs and arrest us and seize our business....unless we paid them weekly protection money for "security"....and I did not want to get involved with that crap, so I backed out of the deal.....but it turns out that the business I had planned to produce wetlook media in Asia would have been a total failure anyway. Because I started monitoring my sales of Asian girls wetlook clips....versus the sales I was making of wetlook clips I was making with Caucasian models in Florida....and the results were stunningly obvious.......the Caucasian girl wetlook clips were selling more than 50 times more than the same kinds of wet jeans scenes featuring Asian girls. Sadly......I learned that if you made a wet jeans scene with an Asian model and made an wet jeans scene with a Caucasian model....the Asian girl scene would sell 50+ times less than the Caucasian girl scene. So.....that trend is not on "me"....cos I will hire any girl and shoot any scene that the consumer wants to see.....this trend is totally driven by THE CONSUMER....and when you are a wetlook producer you have to operate as a viable business where you make enough sales to cover your production costs......so you have to do whatever the consumer prefers you to do in order to make enough sales and avoid going out of business.

So...to summarize.....Hobbyist amateur producers can do whatever they like to do,,,,,because it is their hobby and passion and they inject their own personal preferences because it is their hobby.

Serious professional Producers are running a business and while they may have their own preferred style and preferences, they will primarily do their projects according to a viable business model where they take the pulse of the consumer and then do projects that they know will sell well to their fans and consumers.

Consumers drive the wetlook marketplace.... producers do not dictate what the market preferences will be.

Producers are entrepreneurs....always looking to make wetlook in new and interesting ways in order to make sales. Seeing as there are only a handful of different ways to get a model wet, producers look for new styles or clothings, different props, different models, different locations.....anything they can do to establish their own style in a way that sets them apart from dozens of other producers who are doing the same thing. I have done the research and analyzed my sales figures for the past 25 years. If I thought I could make a successful business producing wetlook media in Asia, I would start packing my bags and move out there and buy a house in Asia right away.....my wife is a citizen of Hong Kong and I can get a resident permit there as well.

But alas, I know from historical stats that a business based on Asian wetlook would fail to get enough sales to survive. That is probably why the past African American wetlook sites have failed to survive as well.....so the consumer drives whatever the wetlook marketplace will be.

In reply to Message (71575)

Is the wetlook community racist? 99,9 percent models are white...

By MikeyABQ - Fri 13/10/17 21:33:42 GMT

Website:

OK, this question will not go down well. I've raised it in the ripping discussion, but nobody would touch it. But it bothers me... and I hope the mods will not delete this

I know the wetlook community is mainly based in the US and Europe and people often like to see the girl next door type, but...

Statistically white dudes also like the exotic beauties. Yet it seems not to be the case in the wetlook community. Or is it only among wetlook producers?

I'm going straight into a mine field here, as I will not name names (except positive or justified examples), but actually it's easy to see who is generally NOT representing their countries population...

I fully understand that producers from the Ukraine and Russia (both model and candid) don't really have a choice in skin color, though there are still some (mainly Asian) models present

WetRom is also doing a good job in getting a bit darker skin toned girls in (at least one of his stars must have Roma (gypsy) blood in her), so no discrimination there.

However things get iffy when we go further west and to North America.

I mean kudos to Erik Elsas, he seems to be trying for some diversity.

But as for most producers, from countries which are only say 60-70 percent white, well it seems they represented are whiter than Poland or Lithuania, as virtually all models seem to be white Caucasian.

Why is that? I mean I know there were some sites dedicated to black (or other women of color) wetlook, but that was a long time ago. Some sites dedicated to Asian models/candids still exist (as do some Asian by origin sites), but also few.

So I wonder, will you discuss a more serious topic? It's between shoes or no shoes, summer or winter clothing, ripping or no ripping, messy or no messy here. But are you up for a more serious discussion?

The question is are many well known wetlook producers racist? Or the wetlook public for some reason? Because this fetish seems to be 99.9% about white girls.

Yet the whole industry in the West is definitely not. Even Tainster/AllWam has more diversity despite being based in Czechia.

And no, I don't want to stir controversy. I just like seeing Asian and darker skinned women in wetlook. I mean I like the more Western dress type, as in some tropical countries, they just wear to little clothes, but you know, there is this one dude, from the UK, who posts candids from English beaches. Non-white girls (dressed in western ways) seem to be the majority there... And this is practically the only consistent source for such photos.

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