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Message # 66412.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1

Subject: Re:OT: why Poland turned weird, just FYI

Date: Mon 25/01/16 14:53:24 GMT

Name: Gunnar

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Let's bring it to the point: in Germany there are many influential people that try to preserve the Copyright.

Our European culture is a CONSENSUS society. Weak or unorthodox publishings in word and sound therefore need to be protected by law.

Especially German intellectuals are skeptical about the assumption [popular = worthy].

We want Youtube or Google to pay for the fact that their users make use of copyright productions and that Youtube and Google earn a lot of money by that.

Youtube or Google do not contribute to the product itself but to their contribution. They shall rather charge their clients for marketing service than undermine the Copyright.

Point is clear?

In reply to Message (66412.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1)

OT: why Poland turned weird, just FYI

By MikeyABQ - Mon 25/01/16 12:11:28 GMT

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A note on the Poland issue. I've visited Poland a lot, my grandparents originate from there. The western view of what is now happening in Poland is not entirely correct. The "pro-EU" party which was in power for 8 years was only "western" on the outside and culturally. But they changed the country into a Russia like state, more than PiS. Shocking. I'll tell you how. Most countries talk about a MEDIAN income, which cant be manipulated (this in Poland is only a little above 2000 zloty or 500 euro). Poland talks about AVERAGE income, which can be manipulated by the salaries of some rich people. This in the last years changed from 3000 to 4500 zloty. So the rich got richer, the poor didn't. And many of those with above average salaries are brothers, wives etc of government employees, also working on government salaries (the number of government and city employees doubled, yet the new ones aren't doing any work). So the Polish GINI index, is now closer Nigeria than Sweden (hardly pro-EU). Add to this the fact that the Polish highways are the worlds most expensive to build by $/km. And the paid ones are also one of Europe's most expansive (in a country with such low salaries). People are still quite tolerant and pro-EU in Poland. By after such years of mistreatment, the poor half (well, more than half) chose the populist government. I hate PiS's cultural and anti-EU rethoric, but I understand why they did it. The facts, which EU media won't probably write about, but apart from the bad, there are good changes:

- the tax free quota will be changed - Poland was the only EU country with a tax free quota, smaller than the minimum needed to exist (WTF). It was 3500 PLN annualy. 4 times less than the next one - Croatia.

- a ordinance has been made that government owned company bosses won't be able to get redundancy bonuses of more than 3 times the salaries they have. Under the pro-Europeans, LOT and PKP had bosses for a month (terrible friends of the ruling elites) who worked that month for say a 100 thousand zloty, than got a million in redundancy... (WTF)

and many more like these. So they are not all bad, and the pro-EU were not all good. Of course I would prefer if Poland was ruled by a normal, pro-EU fraction, just one which also had EU values of social justice. But German media is not saying the truth.

BTW: there will be no change in Poland, which is sad. The KOD demonstrations are a minority. And despite what they say, they are the elite, 99% of them earning way above average so they will never get the backing of the poor majority. Also their leader is a dude who would be in jail in most countries. He has not been paying child support for his children for years. Stating that he is to poor. While owning a cool house, cars, motorcycles, taking world-trips etc. This was possible in the so called pro-EU Poland. And this meant the country had to pay the child support he didn't, so all of us from taxes. The majority will never join his cause. I am hoping for a true revolt against PiS's policies, but well, this won't happen soon and won't happen as part of the process started.

That is why I was more surprised that Germans don't protest, as they seem to have a better view on things, than the majority of frustrated Poles... but than again, the work culture kind of is a good argument.

In reply to Message (66412.1.1.1.1.1.1.2)

Re:And why are the people of Germany allowing this?

By youngwetfan - Mon 25/01/16 07:28:09 GMT

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I think x_wet_x is right. Maybe many people didn't care a lot of blocked youtube-videos, but this can be the first step in a row of cutting our rights more and more...e.g. in the USA Volkswagen has to pay billions of dollars, because the consumers have a lot of rights and will fight for them on court...in germany they get a cheap plastic part for the engine and that's all...and the next car they buy is also a Volkswagen...crazy. And when seeing a blocked youtube-video, most of us germans didn't think about what will be blocked next...just loooking at Poland this time or Hungary, where a lot of arts and human rights a mistreaten and if any politician from the EU talks to them about, they put him with Photoshop in a Nazi-uniform and show him in the newspaper...maybe you could not base all this on the fact of blocked youtube-videos, but also Ovid says: "Principiis obsta, sero medicina paratur cum mala per longas convaluere moras" (stop it at the beginning; a cure is attempted too late when, through long delay, the illness has gained strength.)

In reply to Message (66412.1.1.1.1.1.1)

Re:And why are the people of Germany allowing this?

By X_Wet_X - Sun 24/01/16 22:21:45 GMT

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There is one stereotype of Germans that is very true: it has a strong pro-work culture. After the decay of the civil rights movement from the 60s/70s due to the radicalization of some (look up German Autumn for the historical period), there was not any protest-culture left. If you protest, you don't work and if you don't work, you are lazy (it is the same as with strikes) . This view is very typical for other German speaking countries (I also lived in Austria for quite some time and Switzerland for a little while) and contrast strongly other countries I lived in like France, Italy or several Latin American countries (I really get around a lot). The usual phrase you hear (from the rest of the population and the media), when you are protesting is "don't you have anything better to do" or "isn't there another more important cause to rally for/against".

In reply to Message (66412.1.1.1.1.1)

Re:And why are the people of Germany allowing this?

By WetCasual - wetcasual@yahoo.com Sun 24/01/16 18:27:44 GMT

Website: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8131233@N08/

Strictly spoken, Germany in its current guise has only been a democracy since 1949.. 1990 for the former East Germany...

In reply to Message (66412.1.1.1.1)

And why are the people of Germany allowing this?

By MikeyABQ - Sun 24/01/16 17:38:41 GMT

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I mean Germany is a quite old democracy. Why no protests like in the US when they try to limit liberties? So strange.

In reply to Message (66412.1.1.1)

Re:Really? Wow, Germany got weird...

By X_Wet_X - Sun 24/01/16 12:44:31 GMT

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Yes, the copyright policies and GEMA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEMA_%28German_organization%29 - I am surprised that the English Wikipedia article on this organisation is so long) are crazy. I know German bands who upload their own music-video on youtube (even provide a link on their website) and one can't few it in Germany. Although I am German, I spent very little of my life in Germany. However about 2 years ago I lived in Germany again (for work for about a year) and the blocking of so much content on youtube was really annoying. In my time there, I learned quite a few work-arounds like using VPN or a Firefox-add on called "youtube unblocker" (which uses proxies).

Also another crazy thing in Germany are the copyright lawyers (I've heard it gotten better recently due to some verdicts). You can watch a video on say Youporn (usually they target porn-sites, because the expect the least resistance there), and it turns out that it was not a legal upload (somebody has uploaded a copyrighted video without permission). You watched it without knowning this fact (most videos on Youporn are legal uploads by porn-produces in the same way the wetlook-produces provide a few free images here to attract potential clients), but those lawyers threaten to sue you by sending you a bill (which is a demand for reparation for your illegal viewing plus their legal fees). It is basically extortion covered. Luckily a few dared not to pay and went to court (which is risky, because if you loose it can get really expensive) and managed to get some verdicts to shut down most of those lawyers.

In reply to Message (66412.1.1)

Really? Wow, Germany got weird...

By MikeyABQ - Sun 24/01/16 11:01:09 GMT

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I mean the weirdness can be seen in the almost total lack of Streetview, while countries both west and east have total coverage. Then I've heard of the music videos. But movies also? Wow. Don't you wanna protest and hit the streets? I mean the sheer inaccessibility of almost all media would probably make Americans hit the streets, and if not that I would have thought German youth would have enough when Poland, which Germany always looked down upon as poor and underdeveloped, started being the more normal one when it comes to digital access - there almost nothing is blocked on YouTube (actually one of the better countries - with the fewest "blocked in your county") and Streetview has total coverage etc.

In reply to Message (66412.1)

Nothing to see in gemany...f... the GEMA [nt]

By youngwetfan - Sun 24/01/16 08:12:12 GMT

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(no text)

In reply to Message (66412)

Gimme an 'F' pool scene

By Malvineous - mrnemesis@ntlworld.com Sat 23/01/16 13:53:45 GMT

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Hm, not sure where last night's post got to ... posting this again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EfS8fFi9BY&t=43m

I already had this as a clip, but it was quite low resolution and with no sound.

It appears that the girl in question decided against wearing a bra, as does another girl, so I guess bras were out in 1984 ...

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