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Message # 64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.2

Subject: None Re:OT hear hear

Date: Tue 26/05/15 23:03:01 GMT

Name: MK us

Email: wamtec@comcast.net

Website:

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Now you made me chuckle cos I am definitely not the face of America.....cos I am not an American. I am a Brit just like you...I just happen to live in the USA these days on a green card. I do not celebrate July 4th Independence day....cos that was a war we lost.....ha ha

 

Yes...I remember that you were upset at my comments saying that the new 2015 EU laws on VAT collections regarding wam media sales made in Europe were both unconstitutional and unenforceable for wam businesses and their hosting companies that are based in the USA, but that was not my arrogant opinion, I was simply stating the legal opinions that came from the heads of theMothership hosting company and the UMD Hosting company.....which are the 2 largest hosting companies where the majority of all the WAM sites and download stores are located. Both of those hosting companies had their lawyers look at the new EU laws and gave their opinions, and I all did was to restate what I was told. BTW, you pointed out what you thought was an apparent hypocrisy of selling my selling of media from the USA to EU customers and not charging them VAT on those sales. This is not something unique to my site nor is it my responsibility to collect the VAT, because none of the 400+ WAM producers who use the Mothership and UMD store system to make their sales are responsible to collect and remit those VAT taxes, because none of these are sites/stores are 100% owned by us and are our sole responsibility, they are all partnership sites where the Mothership and IUMD charge a 30% fee on all sales in order to handle all the processing and accounting requirements. We are just commissioned agents who work for UMD and theMothership...so point of sale taxes are their responsibility to decide when to add to their systems. It is up to the heads of UMD and TheMothership to determine whether to enact and collect VAT.....and they have already had their legal experts look at this and decided to continue complying with all U.S. IRS laws on taxes and not to deploy foreign laws, because U.S. law trumps EU law. We do not enforce sharia law in the USA either.

 

It was not my decision not to introduce EU VAT laws on my U.S. based sites, because I was merely one of 400 other wam producers using theMothership and UMD hosting companies, and the heads of those 2 companies are responsible for the cc and checkout systems and they decided not to add EU VAT tax requirements to all stores on their 2 wam hosting companies (so far). This is also the exact same legal opinion and strategy being deployed but the largest clips store site in the world.... Clips4sale.com - and they have 26,000 producers and store owners selling clips on their u.s. based site, and they are a 100 million dollar corporation who generate several million dollars per month in sales thru their system and they have a team of high priced lawyers who advised them and they came to the same legal opinion and strategy as theMothership and UMD have done, and not to apply EU tax laws to their U.S. based hosting companies.

 

We are just small fry potatoes in all this....and we do whatever the cc companies and our hosting companies tell us to do, and when they decide to apply EU VAT taxes to the sales in our store this will be their responsibility and their decision to do that....but for now....I would guess that 95% of all the known wam producers in the world are not collecting VAT on their sales....and that is not something you can blame me for, that is what the entire wam producer community is doing right now.. Correct me if my figures are wrong, but I know from stats on the Mothership store system and the UMD store system that there are currently around 500 wam proiducers with stores on those 2 systems, and some 200 more wam producers are using the Clips4sale system....so thats at least 700 wet and messy producers not collecting EU VAT taxes at this time....so that is probably 90% of the wam producers right now, not something unique to me or my sites. I do not know how many wam prroducers there are who have their own independently hosted sites on their own servers and who do all their own cc processing and who are collecting those VAT taxes....perhaps somebody can start a discissiion on the German wetlook forum and see how many European based wam producers have started collected VAT on their sales....my bet is....you can't name those producers on 2 hands.

 

Anyway, I will start to collect VAT on my sales at the same time as all the other 400+ wam producers using the Mothership and UMD hosting companies decide to add this to their checkout system, but this is the hosting company's responsibility and their decision to make...not something I have any choice in. This is why it is better to use a 3rd party hosting company and not to host your own site entirely yourself, because when you host your own site yourself you become 100% responsible for all issues relating to legal and tax matters and cc processing, but when you use a 3rd party hosting agent like theMothership and UMD (and I have my sites on both systems) then you are not a sole proprietor any more and now you are a commissioned agent (an indepdent contractor)  working for the hosting company, where they payout 70% to you and they own 30% of your business and take care of the legal and accounting side of things and the cc processing at the point of sale....and VAT is the responsibiliy of the person handling the point of sale...which is UMD and TheMothership or Clips4sale, and our responsibility to tax authorities as as an "independent contractor"...so we are only responsible to report our personal "net"  incomes received and to pay personal income taxes or business taxes if you are incorporated....but point of sale VAT collection is not our responsibility anyway, because if theMothership or UMD want to enact VAT at the point of sale, they have to collect that upfront and remit that to the tax authorities, and just send us WAM Producerfs 70% of whatever remains after cc processing fees and hosting company sever fees are deducted etc. We receive net sales...we do not receive gross sales.

 

So, if you want to call me out because my sites do not collect VAT.....be fair and call out the ENTIRE wam producer community....because 95% of all the known WAM producers are currently not collecting them either....in fact I do not know of any wam producer who is collecting them. I belong to private forum on UMD for WAM producers only and this is where such matters are discussed very openly.....and nobody in the wam producer community is discussing about how or when they can start collecting VAT. All the talk I see is about proiducers who have their sites hosted on servers in Europe now considering to move their sites to one of the American based hosting companies (Mothership, UMD or Clips4sale) or...I see a LOT of talk from producers saying that is the final straw for them....cos they are mostly hobbyists who only make enough money to cover their costs to hire girls and order supplies and costumes....and now they talk about shutting down and quitting cos it is just not worth all the hassle and bureacracy to continue with their sites, because these days it not worth it to endure all the hassle just to make a few bucks to buy some outfits and hire a few girls.

 

The future of wetlook producers has nothing to do with tax laws......because the future is called YOUTUBE and free media, and many producers are quitting and giving up now, because when your sales are so tiny anyway because of free media on Youtube.....then it is pointless to continue and it is better just to buy a GoPro and shoot media for Youtube, and do some fundraising for your projects using these new Crowdfunding sites where you can make your pitch and receive donations to do your project, and then you will not have to worry about taxes cos you can just give it all away for free on Youtube and help to make the Google/Youtube billionaires become richer.

 

MK

 

 

 

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1) Thumbs Up OT hear hear

By jollywetfellow - sx Tue 26/05/15 19:18:21 GMT

Website:


MK does come across as the arrogant face of America at times (some people may remember I was ready to replay the Boston Tea Party (but this time throwing videos into the sea in Boston Lincolnshire) when he suggested that the American constitution took precedence over European tax law even when he was doing business in Europe).    BUT in this case Jurgen was way out of line for calling MK "stubid" when all MK did was suggest to a potential customer that he might get a video he wanted from Jurgen's business!    The words "ungrateful" and "boor" now come to my mind when I think of Jurgen.   
In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1) None OT

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Tue 26/05/15 16:43:25 GMT

Website:


OK, so I think we can agree that I do not know the German language and your knowledge of the English language is very poor as well, because you have a totally rude writing style and repeatedly keep making personal attacks on my name by repeatedly calling me "stubid" and arrogant, and I have never once made any personal remarks about you and all I did was state the known facts about the wet fashion brand name in the 1990s, which is something you do not have knowledge about because I was on the wam scene since 1991 and saw this term being used many times in Splosh magazine and other promotions and tv clips during the 1990's, so all I was stating was that the wet fashion term and brand name originated with Thomas Mainer. You were not on the wam scene in the 1990's and only arrived on the scene in 2001 so my knowledge of the 1990's wam era is extensive and you were not around at that time.

 

The lesson to learn is, please improve your style of writing in English and write more politely in future and stop calling me names like "stubid" and arrogant. If you wish to issue a clarification or correction on something please do it politely and then you will get a polite response from me, but when you attack me and call me names like "stubid" and arrogant, then I will respond accordingly to somebody who is being extremely rude and using personal remarks.

 

MK

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1) Info Re:Agree entirely with 'WAM photography'.

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Tue 26/05/15 14:35:43 GMT

Website: Wet Fashion Fun


Hello!

 

Thank you for your statement and yes, I'm totally in line with you.

 

I didn't continue the discussion, cause I thought it has come to a hopeless level. An American guy wants to explain a native German speaker whats fact in a German TV show. This could be funny, if it would not show the level of complete ignoring of any facts, which is the typical style of Mr. MK.

 

The same with the complete strange brand name discussion. Our brand name is unique, there has never been anything registered like this and there has never been any diskussion about our brand name. Sorry, but  again this a level of arrogance that can make me angry. I didn't get into this discussion with MK, cause again it is completely hopeless.

 

And it is not the first time he tells stupid stories about our company and our work. I remember his totally wrong statement about our feature movie and the wetlook edition. No knowledge about the facts, but telling fancy stories like he would know everything. And even if all people tell him that he's wrong, no word like "sorry, I was wrong".

 

That are the things that make me very angry and that can motivate me to write statements like my first statement.

 

I'm sorry for writing things in too hard words. That's not helpful, I should be more carefull in the future.

 

Thanks again for your help and your understanding.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1) Thumbs Up Agree entirely with 'WAM photography'. [nt]

By jollywetfellow - sx Tue 26/05/15 13:03:57 GMT

Website:


(no text)
In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2) None Re:ignoring the facts

By WAM Photography - chris@wetandmessyphotography.com at Tue 26/05/15 10:40:33 GMT

Website: http://www.wetandmessyphotography.com// wetandmessyphotography.com


Hi Guys,

 

I just happen to read through this thread and perhaps I can assist a little in geeting this sorted out.

@MK ... I did listen carefully and at 0:23 of your video clip the narrator says "... Seine Wet Fashion Film Produktion residiert ..." ... since the audio is a little blurred it may be hard to decipher for a non native speaker.

The other issue here is, that a brand name or company name (of a registered company) is not automatically protected as far as I know. You have to apply for a protected brand (costs money) in a certain country or in the Euopean Union.

You can research existing protected brands in germany  here ... https://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/einsteiger.

 

@Jürgen ... I understand your regarding your frustration about your brand probably being confused repeatedly. But I think your first reply could have been stated a little calmer. No need to use harsh retoric when you just want to get the facts straight, which again is totally understandable!

 

just my 2cents

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1) None Re:ignoring the facts

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Mon 25/05/15 23:33:36 GMT

Website:


Then you are sending your complaints to the wrong person...send them to Liebe Sunde tv show, cos you are not listening carefully to what the German TV producer says iin the 1997 clip I uploaded....please listen carefully at the 23 second mark, because she clearly says "wet-fasihion-fun" in her 1997 tv report on Thiomas Mainer.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joVueIObaTw&feature=youtu.be

 

Play it back 2-3 times and you hear the words wet-fashion-fun very clearly in 1997, so this was a term used by Thomas Mainer and created by him in the 1990's many years before your company started to use the same term..

 

The only incorrect assumption I made was that I assumed that you had a connection to Thomas and had taken over his old brand name, which is a natural assumption to make because you need to have permission and pay compensation  to take over a brand name otherwise what happens is that things end up in court like the famous case between the original creators of Apple Corps (the Beatles) and the computer company later founded by Steve Jobs. So it was natural for me to assume that you either had a relationship to Thomas or had paid him a settlement in order to acquire the brand name he made famous in Germany in the 1990's. The Apple vs Apple case went on for 28 years, and resultied in Apple computer company finally paying 500 million dollars in settlements to acquire all rights to that brand name.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

 

I made a logical assumption that you must have made an agreement with Thomas to acquire his brandname, so I can see why this has touched a raw nerve with you because now you say you had no connection to Thomas and so you just adopted the term and brandname Thomas had already made famous in the 1990's..

 

But you would have been better off to ignore my message and not make such a big deal of this on a public forum, cos you are merely highlighting something that could lead you to a lawsuit if Thomas ever comes back and wants to file a claim against your company and ask for a settlement....so it is better if if you stop prolonging this very BORING thread..

 

You should have seen the subtle compliment I paid you....i.e. the old Apple company produced great things....but the new Apple company produced even greater things.....so a great company name can be acquired and turned into an even greater company.

 

MK

 

 

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1) Thumbs Down ignoring the facts

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Mon 25/05/15 22:48:40 GMT

Website:


Hey Mr. MK, sorry but seems to be hopeless. You don't read other people's statements, you don't check your own statements.

 

Soak Ed and myself too, have written to you that Mr. Mainers company was called "Wet Fashion", NOT "Wet Fashion Fun" and that both have nothing to do with each other. You seem to ignore this completely.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1) None Re:sorry, you are totally wrong

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Mon 25/05/15 22:38:36 GMT

Website:


I just report on the facts, and the facts are that the brandname "Wet Fashion Fun" was originially created by a guy called Thomas Mainer in the mid 1990's, and that Thomas disappeared from the wam scene in the late 1990's. These are pure facts evidenced by the tv clips I have and  the 1997 tv commentator on tv referring to "wet fashion fun" as Thomas' company, and Soaked Ed says has has tapes from Thomas in the 1990's using that term as well.

 

I have been a wam producer since 1991 and we all knew in the 1990s that certain keywords were a brandname owned by certain producers...e.g. the term "Messy Fun" was a brand name made famous by Rob Blaine and the term "Splosh" was a term invented by Bill Shipton of Splosh magazine and Thomas Mainer was the person who made the term "wet fashion fun" famous in Germany in 1990's

 

I am not saying that your company that was founded much later in 2001 does not have the right to use the brandname Thomas created, because his company shut down in the late 1990's and Thomas disappeared from the scene, so you have every right to take over an abandoned brand name. It seems this is no different to the brand name "Apple Corps"...which was a brand name created by the The Beatles in 1969 for their recording label, but 7 years later Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs created their company Apple Corps and Apple Inc in 1976....because by then the Beatles old recording label had gone out of busness and was no longer being used any more....so thats fine.....but there is no denying who was the creator of the Apple brandname and Apple logo......it was The Beatles and not Steve Jobs

 

MK

 

ps....Rob Blaine was very protective of his brand name "Messy Fun" in the 1990's and whenever I made a freudian slip in my typing of the descriptions for my videos and I accidentally put the words "messy" and "fun" in the same sentence.....Rob would send me an email asking me to rewrite my descriptions.....cos he told me that any use of the words "messy" and fun"  together in a sentence were banned because those were an infringement of his rights, cos he owned the rights to those 2 words being used together....so I sometimes made a natural error of using those 2 words in a description...and he would spot that and drop me a note asking me to re-word my description.

 

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1) Depressed Re:sorry, you are totally wrong

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Mon 25/05/15 22:04:51 GMT

Website: Wet Fashion Fun


Yes, I know this: "Wet Fashion". He sold very good physical photo sets too. That's all fine.

 

But it has nothing to do with our company, which even has a different name. And I still wonder how Mr. "MK" thinks he can write stubid stories and even do not accept that he is wrong.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2) Talking Re:sorry, you are totally wrong

By Soak_ed - soak_ed@hotmail.com pl Mon 25/05/15 21:57:20 GMT

Website:


Juergen, Thomas' company was called "Wet Fashion".  I have an old VHS tape from him and that is what it says on the tape.  The confusion with the name of your company is understandable.
In reply to Message (64434.1.6) Angry sorry, you are totally wrong

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Mon 25/05/15 19:27:09 GMT

Website: Wet Fashion Fun


Sorry, I just like to explain, that my company "Wet Fashion Fun" has NOT been bought from anyone called "Thomas" or anyone else, cause I have started this company by myself in 2001. I wonder why people need to tell stubid storys if they don't know anything about the facts. Angry
In reply to Message (64434.1) None It was a 1990's documentary on Wet Fashion Fun

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Sun 24/05/15 17:06:21 GMT

Website:


I remember it and I know I have it somehwere on an old VHS tape, but can't seem to find it in my archive records right now. This was one of three mid 90's tv documentaries I have from German tv shows that did 5 minute documentary features on wet & messy producer Thomas Mainer, who was the creator and original owner of the Wet Fashion Fun company in Germany. I found the 2 wetlook documentaries I have on Thomas, one was from the Pro7 channel show "Liebe Sunde" and the other was from a tv show caleld "Sexorama". These documentaries show lots of scenes from his wetlook shootings. As I recall, at that time in 1996 Thomas was the only wet & messy producer in Germany using professional broadcast cameras (Sony Betacams), so he was the first professional WAM producer to start up In Germany in the mid 90's and was a counterpart to Rob Blaine's Messy Fun company in the USA and the Artscene/Aquantics and Splosh companies in the UK.  The 3rd documentary (I know I have it on some tape, but cannot find it in my records right now) showed Thomas and his models doing a mud shoot at what looked like a clay gravel quarry....I will keep looking to see if I can find it.

 

Thomas created some good stuff from 1994 to 1999  but then he suddenly he disappeared in the late 1990's and has never been heard of since. His company Wet Fashion fun was then sold to new owners and still continues to this day, so maybe they have copies of these old tv documentaries.

 

MK

In reply to Message (64434) None Search for old RTL messy movie from the late 1990s

By msmud - pt4230-435@online.de de Sun 24/05/15 10:06:54 GMT

Website:


Hi all,

 

does someone remember, respectively has recording of a 3-5mins report on a messy community in an area around Hannover, displayed on a RTL daily TV magazine somewhere in the llater 1990/earyl 2000 ?  The scene I remember was about a gravel pit, 4 ladies/girls in formal/business clothes and a guy who did the filming an a bit of interview.  Finally all the girls hopped into the mud and were filmed.  Thanks for any hints where to find get.

 

Msmud

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