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Message # 57038.10.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.2

Subject: None Re:Is it me or...

Date: Sat 23/02/13 16:01:08 GMT

Name: Chris B. WAM Photography at

Email: chris@wetandmessyphotography.com

Website: http://www.wetandmessyphotography.com/

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I'm a little late to join the discussion, but just wanted to tell you guys how much  I enjoyed reading through every post ... even the initial one that started the dicusssion :) As others stated already that's an interesting statement in a forum that was initiated by a commercial producer :)

 

Everybody has his own reasons to start producing and selling scenes.  I for example collected a huge stockpile of "genuine" wetlook over the years  (if you want to define candid wetlook as genuine ... or perhaps the threads initiator define's it as free ... not sure ;-) ) . I spent hours, days,  weeks, drove hundreds of kilometers to events to take photos and videos. I even remeber sharing some of that stuff along with hours of TV tapings with Mark via Wamtec - what a great time that was :) However, as much as I liked to capture as many public and candid wetlook moments as possible, I realized that a) I would never earn any money back with that and b) I won't be able to capture all the details that I like about wetlook as long as I don't have control over how the scene plays out.

 

So at a certain point in time you start to produce your own material. And once you have started, it's hard to stop again :) As you get more experienced your own demand on quality grows. So it's only natural to offer your stuff on a market place like this forum and that way to be able to cover the costs for time and equipment.

 

As for the discussion whether models actually enjoy getting wet. My experiences are mostly the same as you already described in your discusison. Most of my girls as well are happy to earn some bucks with posing in a wetlook scene. It's not allways that I have to ask a model if she's interested in a wetlook shoot, especiallly during summer I oftentimes get requests from models who want to produce some nice wetlook photos. Still I believe for most of them there's no sexual interest in wetlook for themselves, but they do find it makes them look sexy and it has a certain kind of erotic appeal. But even if they make the request for the shoot, as soon as I offer the photos for sale, I will offer the models compensation for their effort. Does that make the wetlook less genuine, because it's commercial? I don't believe so.

 

There are only two women I have worked with, who absolutely enjoyed getting wet together. They enjoyed it for themselves, but they wouldn't want their shots to be sold or to appear on a wetlook  forum.

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2) None Re:Is it me or...

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com uu Tue 19/02/13 00:57:50 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com


AnthonyX, you said;

"I'm pretty sure I recall you asking the forum a while back about interest in photosets where the models would "Take things a little further" (my figurative words, not a quote), because of their state of mind during the shoots - that they have had to control themselves in some way. I don't recall your exact words or the specific intent behind them - it seemed somewhat ambiguous to me at the time."

 

I think that was a question asked by Tess, on the Wetlook Forum, but I think I understand what you're referring to. I believe it was about a year ago, we had met a couple of models who had no problem with "taking things a little further" so to speak. The thing is, we wanted to keep "A Splash of Glamour" PG or R rated at the most, and much of the feedback we got supported this. At the time, we were considering another site that could go a bit further than SOG did and we actually created a C4S site, "Always Wet and Sexy", but the idea would had been far more hassle than it was worth, so we decided against it and we now use AW&S as a place to sell our amateur videos.

 

Mark,

 

   It's a great discussion, one that doesn't get talked much about.

 

In the years I've been doing photography, which is far fewer years than you. (In 79 I was just 13-14 yrs old) I've also ran across three types of model categories;

 

1) Those who are just in it for pay and have no personal interest.

2) Those who are in it because they know that it appeals to a significant other or an audience

3) Those who have an interest in it for themselves.

 

#3 is the hardest type to come across but they do exist. Wetmar is a great example of a person who is genuinely into wetlook for herself, but also remember that in the overall grand scheme of things, wetlook is a very small fetish interest even amongst men. In the short time, I've been photographing models, we've ran across many models who have personal interests in other fetishes, such as bondage, foot fetish, spanking, etc, but these are also much larger fetish interests, so you'll find more women personally into those things. The flip side of that is, if women can have personal interests in other fetishes, then the same should also apply to wetlook. I think they are far fewer in numbers, but I do believe they are out there.

 

Of course we run across models who fall into category #2 most of the time. When it comes to sexuality, men tend to have sexual fantasies, but women are most likely to act them out, or they love the attention that they get. The fetish for these girls isn't the important part, only the results, but it doesn't mean they won't love doing wetlook or whatever the fetish is, it merely means they have a different perspective.

 

We do come across those who fall into the first category, those who do it for pay and have no personal interest. Understandably, many people would be disappointed to know that some models performing a fetish isn't into it for themselves. I respect the fact that they are often trying to earn a living or do modeling to supplement their income and I understand that not everyone is going to be into wetlook. From strictly the business end, I don't mind working with them, so long as they are professional, perform well, and don't mind the work. If they aren't into the work of modeling wetlook, I'm not interested in working with them because they aren't likely to give me 100% for my project.

 

In any case, we all work very hard to produce genuine wetlook. I spend numerous nights working on my images to make them available for purchase. Tess also works hard helping me with all the details, finding models and actually making some of the clothes, and the models work hard too. Wetlook isn't as easy as it seems. Both the models and I endure cold water, hours of being wet, swimming or being beaten by waves for relatively long periods of time, etc. just to get an image. But it's also a lot of fun and I will say that it's the best job I've had.

 

Sincerely EdR

 

 

 

 

 

 

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) None Re:Is it me or...

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Mon 18/02/13 05:34:41 GMT

Website:


Good discussion.

 

All I know is...I have been shooting wetlook since 1979......and have filmed many girls in those years, and I can tell you that "Wetmar" is truly unique and a one-in-a-million exception...cos there is no doubt about her authenticity and love for the genre, for her own personal interest reasons.....but 99.9995% of all the girls I have met or chatted with have basically been in 3 categories....i.e.

 

a) Those who are just amateur or professional actresses or models, who have no personal interest in the subject matter themselves, and for them this is just "a job" and a fun thing to do (cos it is a lot more fun to get paid to attend a wetlook pool party....than it is to flip burgers at McDonalds). So...they enjoy the experience cos they get compensated well, it's a fun experience, and it helps pay for their rent and their babies etc.  They enjoy entertaining people and having fun....but it would make no difference to them if I were shooting pillow fight videos or balloon popping videos (a fetish that is far more popular with female fetishists than wetlook is), ..so they will do "anything for fun".....so if I said to them...lets drop wetlook and start making balloon popping videos....they would say....sure. Hey....we made MANY custom videos in the 1990's....that had nothing to do with wetlook.....and were other fetishes that you would have a hard time trying to figure out....e.g. one guy paid us and our girls a load of money...and he showed up with a large suitcase full of eyeglasses....more than 200 pairs of glasses. And all he wanted the girl to do was to put on a pair of glasses for 30 seconds...fully clothed...no nudity or sexual moves...just sit there and try the next pair, and the next pair....and this went on until the girl had finished posing in all glasses.....I almost fell asleep during that shoot.....cos that was the most monotonous video we ever made. But hey....the girl made enough money from that guy to pay her mortgage that month...so she was very happy for the job....cos she made a lot more money trying on 200 pairs of glasses....than making 200 burgers at McDonalds.

 

b) There are some women I have encountered that see wetlook as a "foreplay device"....not to please themselves....but to please their boyfriends or husbands.....i.e. they know what it is that pushes their man's hot buttons...and they are keen to push his buttons cos they know it will make for a great evening with their partner etc. So...they see wetlook no differently to a more traditional couple...where the guy gets turned on by a nice pair of stockings and suspenders....so the girl will don a nice set of sexy lingerie from Victoria's Secret....to get their boyfriend or hubby "in the mood".

 

c) There is another kind of female wetlooker....that, just like a) and b) does not get personally turned on by being in wet clothes....but she is an exhibitionist who will do webcam shows or youtubes....just to get attention.....cos she enjoys the attention she is getting etc.This is what Wet T Shirt event girls are all about. They do it to get attention or win prizes....and they do not care a darn thing about the wet t shirt...ha ha

 

d) I have also encountered quite a few females who ordered wetlook products from me....not as a "device" for themselves....but as an "excuse" for abdicating their wifely duties and NOT doing wetlook themselves for their partner.....,..i.e....several female customers have given me feedback in a back-handed compliment....saying...more or less..."your wetlook products are really great....cos I can order this stuff and give it to my hubby or boyfriend...and this keeps him happy and then he will stop pestering me to do this crap for him"....ha.ha....what a bummer.

 

The reality is this......if you post wetlook videos to Youtube, as I and most other producers do.....go to the Advance Settings in your Youtube profile and look at all the Stats for your Views that Youtube gives you......and you can see a detailed breakdown of your view stats demographics by country and by gender....and those view stats tell the story plainly and clearly....and are no suprize to me....i.e. 75% of all wetlook fans come from 3 countries only....the USA, the UK and Germany....and 99% of all my views for my Youtubes are from folks who claim to be MALE in their youtube profiles...and I only have about 1% views from females. That says it all. I have less than 1% female customers in my customer records over the last 20 years....and most of those females were not claiming to be wetlook fans themselves...cos they told me they were just ordering for hubby as a birthday gift etc.

 

I have only ever met 2 females who clained to be turned on by wetlook themselves.....and they were both Lesbians....and one of those was a transgender person in the midst of a sex change operation from a guy to a girl....sorry guys.

 

I have never met anyone like Wetmar...so she is definitely a one of a kind person....I wish there were more like here....but there are not.

 

If you rule out every female who is doing wetlook purely for commercial reasons or to please their hubby.....and you rule out the exhibitionists....then who is left.

 

Oops....I forgot.....Wetmar is not the only one....I forgot about Jessica. She is knew to the scene and her interests are definitely self-interests....so as Wetmar has now retired...Jessica rules the world now...as being a one of kind wetlook person..

 

Rock on Jessica !!

 

MK

 

 

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1.1.1.1.1) Talking Re:Is it me or...

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Mon 18/02/13 03:18:31 GMT

Website:


Perhaps my previous post requires a little clarification.

 

My questions were more rhetorical than anything else.

 

I'm pretty sure I recall you asking the forum a while back about interest in photosets where the models would "take things a little further" (my figurative words, not a quote), because of their state of mind during the shoots - that they have had to control themselves in some way. I don't recall your exact words or the specific intent behind them - it seemed somewhat ambiguous to me at the time. Anyway... my reason for mentioning it had more to do with what is set up in the mind of a viewer both by what actually appears on the screen, and by other information the viewer receives about the scene and the models appearing in it. If the model displays subtle body language or facial expressions indicating "I'm liking this", it makes the scene more appealing than if she's looking bored, detached, or uncomfortable. Combine that with a description of the scene suggesting that she's really turned on by the whole situation, and that further increases the appeal... assuming, of course, that it's credible.

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1.1.1.1) None Re:Is it me or...

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com uu Mon 18/02/13 01:13:37 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com


I can't speak for WetlookSex, nor was I there, but the possibility can and does exist.

 

I am happy to say that most of the models we have had the privilege to work with are dear friends of ours. As such we treat them with the utmost respect, and I don't divulge any information about their sexuality or even what turns them on, publicly or otherwise..... What I can tell you is in general

 

We had the great pleasure to work with Wetmar a couple of years ago. She had contacted us about collaborating on a photo shoot together, so we met and done several sets together. I can tell you that she absolutely loves getting wet, fully clothed. Thats no joke! All I had to do was capture her in what she loves to do. Another model, Nerea, whom some of you may know from the UMD also personally loves getting wet and messy. We have had the honor to have recently worked with her too and with some luck, you'll be seeing more of her. There will be a surprise coming, I won't say now, but soon we will be introducing a well known wetlook model whom we have had the great pleasure to work with. BTW She too loves getting wet.

Some models who had worked with us, having previously never experienced wetlook before, come to discover that they do love doing it and have a great deal of fun with it. One model in particular, XXSmiley, has even made a C4S page where she had done a few of her own wetlook vids, simply because she loves doing it. And then there are a few models who has worked with us that love the idea that there is an audience out there who loves what they are doing for them. These girls just love the attention. Its sad that we simply can't show you what goes on behind the scenes and how truly wonderful it is to work with models. Sure, we can say it's fake, like wrestling, but theres also so much that goes on behind the curtain to make a production. Funny because one of the models who has worked with us has become a (female) wrestler. Yes it's faked, but it's also a tough business where people can and do get hurt, and the work is hard, just to entertain. I would say wetlook photography is also a lot of hard work. It may seem easy to strike a pose, but working around water and various messes isn't easy at all.

 

Sincerely EdR

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1.1.1) Talking Re:Is it me or...

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Sun 17/02/13 23:51:50 GMT

Website:


This leads me to think of one other aspect of "genuine". One of the sites which has banner ad space here is WetlookSex. Among the scenes for sale are those containing one or two girls performing explicit sexual acts in a wetlook context. Are the girls "genuinely" aroused? Are they "genuinely" aroused by the wetlook context? Are they just faking it all for the camera?

 

I think I'm just re-iterating MK's point... does it really matter? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm satisfied to call it a duck, whether it "genuinely" is or not.

 

Ed, I recall you saying at some point that some of your models do get turned on by the sessions. Cool thing to know. The model's level of comfort and frame of mind in a scene does often reveal itself on her face and in her body language. Even if she's not turned on, it's always more pleasing to watch if she is at least enjoying herself in a playful sense if not a sexual one. Could that be what is meant by being "genuine"?

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1.1) None Re:Is it me or...

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com uu Sun 17/02/13 22:10:38 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com


AnthonyX;

 

   This is a real interesting topic to discuss for me because wetlook as an interest is usually subjective, and I love talking about those differences. We all have our own take on this, it's no different for me. I don't know if the OP meant that "genuine" equates to "candid", but within the context of genuine, I consider what I produce as genuinely wetlook.

 

Mark, you make an interesting point, but I don't necessarily think that there is a direct comparison between wrestling and "commercial" wetlook, other than that both are intended to entertain.  

 

There has been plenty of discussion and debate between candid vs commercial. On one side, some believe that the best wetlook involves people who aren't acting and they perceive this as "genuine" because they think that the people involved are actually doing wetlook for the love of it, while a paid model only does it for money. Of course the other side of the argument is that candids involve recording people without their knowledge, which in itself brings up issues of morality for some. I don't want to get into that debate, but I will say that, nothing is like what some people think. Candids do not necessarily mean that the person involved has an interest in wetlook. In fact most people who end up on youtube or whatever do not even know that there is such an interest. On the flip side, models can develop an interest in wetlook simply because they do know that someone is going to see them perform in it, and that can and does become exciting for them.

I'm sure you have plenty of stories to tell about the models you've worked with that have done wetlook. In fact, you had a bunch of great behind the scenes of the models being themselves and most of all having fun. If none of you had seen these vids, I would recommend them because Mark has captured some fantastic footage of what happens during a shoot and how genuine models really are as well as how important they really are to this business.  

 

Sincerely EdR

In reply to Message (57038.10.1.1) None Re:Is it me or...

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Sun 17/02/13 16:32:40 GMT

Website:


I don't have a problem with this charactization of "genuine wetlook"....it's a fair comment.......e.g. is there any "genuine" wrestling that happens in any professional wrestling tv show....ha ha....no....it is all "staged" for the purposes of entertainment....like a soap opera.

 

So...professional wetlook productions are like professiional wrestling.....i.e. they are "staged" for pure entertainment value....and are not intended to be authentic.

 

We have an entire cable tv channel in the USA that calls itself TRU TV and purports all of it's various tv shows to be "reality tv"...everything from repossessing cars, to buying antiques, running a pawn shop, and my 2 favorites....making moonshine in the woods and what happens at the Full Throttle Saloon at the Sturgis Biker rally. All of these shows have small grain of reality...i.e. the people are real...but 90% of what happens in those shows are staged or faked....cos if they did not stage a fake a crisis in every episode....they would be pretty dull and boring....so they are about 10% reality and 90% faked and staged just for entertainment purposes. You have to suspend disbelief and just sit back and enjoy these shows....i.e. on the show about making moonshine in the woods....does anybody really believe that the cops on this show are so stupid that they can never catch these guys...ha ha.

 

I think there is a place for candid wetlook (spontaneous unplanned wetlook) and modelled wetlook (staged wetlook)....and both have their entertainment value to different groups of fans.

 

But basically the original posters question is like saying that there is too much fake wrestling on TV these days.....which is staged like a soap opera.......and not enough authentic greco roman wrestling to see on tv......

 

...but guess what.....millions of fans like to see the staged unauthentic pro wrestling tv shows.....and most people find authentic wrestling to be uninteresting.....and even the Olympic committee this week....just announced that they will be dropping wrestling from the next Olympic games.....

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324880504578299693435845664.html

 

I guess they plan to replace it with something more popular....i.e. Olympic Gangnam Style dancing .....or my favorite sport....Zombie Flashmob invasions....ha ha

 

MK

In reply to Message (57038.10.1) Talking Re:Is it me or...

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Sun 17/02/13 15:46:49 GMT

Website:


Maybe by "genuine" he really means "candid". Even so, I think it's still an invalid complaint, for most of the reasons in my previous post. Whether or not we are talking about production, candid, or something in between, this is more about the "consumer" than the "producer". There are those who will happily pay for production content and/or graciously accept whatever free content they find enjoyable, and there are those who complain that there is never enough of what they would want, will never pay for what they can find, or attempt to create their own.
In reply to Message (57038.10) None Re:Is it me or...

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com uu Sun 17/02/13 03:45:26 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com


Hmm,... As a "commercial" producer, I don't feel that my work is any less genuine. I will say this, and I don't think I would be alone amongst the commercial producers,

you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes, and you certainly don't know the models, the "paid" girls who go thru the hard work of doing a wetlook or messy photo shoot.

 

Sincerely EdR

In reply to Message (57038) Question Is it me or...

By Anonymous - us Fri 15/02/13 22:31:04 GMT

Website:


Has this forum been taken over by commercial producers?

Where's the genuine wetlook?

Anybody can get wet for a hanfull of money...

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