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Message # 5642.1.1.2.1.1.1.1

Subject: Hello Re: Re: I actually removed myself from the Wam Awards this year!

Date: Thu 04/09/03 08:36:05 GMT

Name: Kev gb

Email: kev.styx@ntlworld.com

Website:

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Don't know if all this is strictly true. No doubt that Chainsaw Joohn is very UMD orientated- but he's into messy, not wetlook. Messy fans aren't lucky to have a good forum like the wetlook fans.

 

However most sites, once voting takes place, will no doubt put on a link which will go direct to the voting area and miss UMD altogether.

 

Would a vote by peer group achieve the right sort of verdict? How can you compare the use of props, lighting, etc on a modelled movie to what happens on a candid shoot? The two are completely different. On the latter the producer has little or no control over what happens, what clothes are worn, etc. How can anyone decide that one is better than the other?

 

Producers produce their material for people who want to see it- who better to judge whether it's good or not. I firmly believe it's down to the consumer to judge whether something is good or not

 

 

Peer groups invariably turn into cliques, a good example is the fashion industry, where loads "arty, party going, types" commit atrocities in the name of fashion and then pat each other on the back. Real people then go to high street stores and buy what low paid "bread and butter" designers produce for chain stores.

 

We could end up with a situation where someone gets an award for fantastic camerawork, lighting and editing- but the movie is crap because people aren't interested.

 

On the subject of nominations it's gratifying to see someone (MK) nominated for a lifetime achievement award, who has actually spent more than a few months in the business!! I don't know what some people's interpetation of "lifetime" means- but to me me it should be longer than the lifespan of the average moth !!

 

Apart from the venerable Roger, and MK, I doubt if many on the list go back more than a year or two.

 

In reply to Message (5642.1.1.2.1.1.1) Hello Re: I actually removed myself from the Wam Awards this year!

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com us Tue 02/09/03 16:41:44 GMT

Website:


Interesting...can't say I blame you...

 

Well...Marlon Brando refused to accept his Oscar for THE GODFATHER, and likewise George C Scott refused to accept his Oscar for PATTON too....cos they did not feel comfortable about their awards either.....but history stands the test of time..and people still remember their movies....and so your body of work is really more important over time...not how good you are at designing a website.

 

Irrespective of that...the nominations process is still not a true representation of the entire WAM community...only those folks who congregate over at UMD.

 

Personally I think it would be more interesting to have an awards system based on the same system the oscar has...i.e. a peer to peer system...where the general public does not vote..it is just peers in the industry who vote for their fellow producers and webmasters....so a system whereby only those who actually produce media or manage a major website get to vote for their fellow peers in the industry...and you can vote for anybody except yourself. The oscars are the only awards the actors, producers and directors really care about...because they mean something, cos those are recognition from your fellow peers in the industry. There are numerous aspects of video production and web design that the average consumer is not aware of...but only fellow producers and webmasters will appreciate..i.e. subjects like how well a video is edited, or how scenes are staged and directed or how props are deployed, how well a website is made, how good the video streaming systems are.....the consumer never notices those things and just takes those things for granted. Other producers appreciate those things...i.e. that it takes several hours to shoot a quick that may only last 10 minutes after editing, and it can take 150 to 250 hours of post production work to edit just one video...or all the efforts taken to do proper lighting when shooting stills etc etc....thats why nobody can touch Tom Delombarde or David Wilkey for wetlook stills photography...cos those guys really know how to do professional lighting..

 

The MTV Movie awards have ridiculous categories such as "best on screen kiss"...so their awards are meaningless and just an excuse for a big bash and a tv special that has no purpose except for the ladies to show off their designer dresses. The oscars have meaningful categories like best editing or best original screenplay...but those subjects are just too boring for most tv audiences to sit thru. The general public are too unsophisticated to know what good editing is...but they can sure as heck easily understand what the "best onscreen kiss" is.....ha ha.

 

We should have an award for "the wetlook scene that gave you the biggest boner"...ha ha

 

MK

In reply to Message (5642.1.1.2.1.1) Info I actually removed myself from the Wam Awards this year!

By leonmoomin - leonmoomin@ntlworld.com gb Tue 02/09/03 11:34:13 GMT

Website:


Sorry

 

This was not John's fault, just didn't feel right!

 

I asked him not to include me this year.

 

leonmoomin

 

Thanks for the thoughts though Mark!

In reply to Message (5642.1.1.2.1) Hello Re: WAM nominations?? No Leon or Wet Brian??

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com us Tue 02/09/03 11:01:02 GMT

Website:


Well...like I said....asking only the UMD folks to vote on who the best wetlook sites and producers are.....is rather like asking a football forum their opinions on who they think the best tennis players are....UMD audiences are only meanningful voters as far as the messy scene goes...and they do not reflect what the true wetlook community is thinking, cos 10 times more wetlook fans are based over here at Nigel's forum and do not belong to UMD. The majority of UMD folks don't really understand wetlook the way folks do on this forum, and their opinions and tastes seem to be largely based upon who or what is the most erotic and sexual while wet...as opposed to a more comprehensive analysis of the entire wetlook clothing scene as folks here know it to be.

 

No offence to UMD folks....but asking them to vote on the best wetlook sites...is rather like asking a man in the street who is the best female tennis player...and getting  the answer "Anna Kournakova"...which is uninformed and ridiculous...because she has played in over 175 tournaments since she turned pro 5 years ago...and has YET to EVER win a single tournament....but everybody thinks she is great...because they know nothing about tennis, and can only see how attractive she is.

 

Thats how most of the UMD folks see wetlook....not with a real understanding of the genre....but seeing which websites look the slickest and which models look the sexiest and most erotic.

 

Last year the WAM Awards was a failure cos of the corruption in the voting process...and I am glad to see that they have addressed those issues this year. But this year the major omission was to just advertise and promote the nominations process for this years awards only on UMD...cos I do not recall Chainsaw John making any announcements or reminders to THIS forum...reminding the wetlook community to vote for their nominees. So that is why you have such obvious ommissions such as Leonmoomin....cos the nominations process was only promoted over at the UMD forum...which works fine for messy fans....but the nominations process was not promoted very well or reminded over here at Nigel's forum....so you have a skewed voting system...i.e. messy fans voting for stuff they know about...and messy fans largely voting for other categories like wetlook that they know little about...while the largest wetlook community over here was largely excluded from the nominations voting process.

 

They either need to change the WAM Awards name to "THE UMD AWARDS" to be more accurate of who the voters are...or promote the voting process more equally over here at this forum next time around...cos UMD is NOT the center of the world as far as wetlook goes...Nigel's forum is.

 

MK

In reply to Message (5642.1.1.2) Hello WAM nominations?? No Leon or Wet Brian?? [nt]

By Placebo Effect - gb Tue 02/09/03 09:26:03 GMT

Website:


(no text)
In reply to Message (5642.1.1) Hello Re: This does look interesting

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com us Tue 02/09/03 03:12:20 GMT

Website: http://wamawards.ca/nominate.htm


It's a nice idea, though I am not exactly sure how it would develop...so we will have to watch and see. My initial reaction is that a general meeting place for like minded people to chat...already exists...i.e. either on this forum, or the UMD forum, so it would seem to be redundant to create more meeting places. Most folks only have the time to go to one or two main forums each day....and many folks will not have the time to go to this forum, then go to UMD and then go to a 3rd meeting zone too...not unless they are unemployed and have have a lot of free time on their hands (and guess what...unemployed people are not buyers of products...so would storefront owners even be able to sell things to that kind of community).

 

Hey Leonmoomin....don't be concerned about there not being enough shops on the virtual map....cos trust me...thats better than what has happened with the UMD "featured sites" area and all the "updates" sections...i.e. there are too MANY featured sites and way too many update notices...it is all so overwhelming to surf UMD these days that if somebody made an annoucement that they just did a wetlook video with Julia Roberts and Cindy Crawford....it would probably not get noticed, cos UMD is too cluttered with too many featured sites. So...the best thing Chainsaw John can do...is to limit his virtual stores to a max of 25 stores only....cos once the map gets to be as cluttered as the UMD front page is (and it surely will) then this will just be redundant with what UMD is doing. So...the best thing Chainsaw John can do..is to make his virtual city "exclusive"...i.e. like Rodeo Drive in California or Mayfair in London...and only allow a limited number of exclusive high end websites/storefronts to be featured.

 

Reality is...it takes a lot of ISP expenses to fund his site...and the only way to cover expenses is to rent as many storefronts as possible...meaning that..the virtual city is likely to become a virtual "ghetto" (where folks will get lost in a maze of too many sites) once too many producers start to use it. It is a good idea though....just needs to be implemented carefully...and not "over sold" with too many storefronts and producers joinging it. He should probably consider upping the rent from $10 a month...and make it $100 per month instead...so that only the very best and financially successful sites are featured...i.e. just like an exclusive outlet shopping mall that only features the top brands and designers.

 

Changing the subject, I see that Chainsaw John has announced the nominations for the 2003 WAM Awards....

 

http://wamawards.ca/nominate.htm

 

And it is good to see that he has changed the rules this year so that producers cannot buy votes from their fans by offering free pics or doing other such tactics....so it looks like they are going to be well managed this year.

 

My only thoughts in looking at all the nominees though...is that this should still really be called, as I said last last..."The UMD Awards"...cos the nominees are only a reflection of who posts stuff to UMD and or the people on UMD and their opinions...and there are many fine producers on this forum not even mentioned...because they only post here and have no real presence on UMD. The WAM Awards are like the MTV movie awards...i.e. not a reflection of what the general public thinks...but a reflection of the MTV viewers only. Same is true for the WAM Awards...they only reflect the wam scene from the UMD viewers standpoint. UMD is a very solid litmus test for the messy slapstick scene...cos they are "where it's at" for messy stuff...but UMD is NOT a true barometer for the wetlook scene...Nigel's forum is where 90% of the wetlook fans are...and probably less than 20% of the wetlook fans ever visit UMD...and most of the wetlook UMD features is erotica wetlook or x rated wetlook...whereas that is not the case here. All you have to do is look at the volume of message traffic on the MESSY UMD forum...versus how little traffic there is on the WETLOOK UMD forum....at least 20 times more traffic on their messy forum,  as opposed to their wetlook forum. That would tend to suggest that UMD is an 80% messy oriented community...where few of the wetlook fans hang out. Their list of nominations also reflects this...i.e. not recognizing the most prominent wetlook producers like Leonmmoomin and Nigel...and only mentioning companies whom most of us have never heard of. Nominees are the UMD viewers only...and UMD folks do NOT reflect where the largest wetlook community is...which is here.

 

I know I must be getting old...cos reading the list of WAM nominations today was like me watching the MTV music video awards last week....I just sat their scratching my head and saying "who" and "who"...cos aside from Britney Spears, Madonna and Duran Duran...I had never heard of most of the people on that show...ha ha. Same goes for the 2003 WAM Award nominations too.

 

It's time to wheel me out to the funny farm...cos I feel like Madonna must have felt when she was on stage with Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears....Madonna must have been thinking...Sheesh...I am old enough to be their mother...so why the heck am I still prancing around on stage like this with 2 girls who are half my age....it is time to hand over the reins to the new and younger generation....which is ostensibly what the true meaning of her performance was all about...it was not about her kissing Britney Spears...it was Madonna's swansong to formally hand over her crown to the new queens of pop.

 

MK

 

 

In reply to Message (5642.1) Hello This does look interesting

By Zamboni - gb Tue 02/09/03 02:13:18 GMT

Website:


my only concern is will my puney modem be up to a 'virtual world' me thinks not Sad
In reply to Message (5642) Info Very interesting, particularly to webmasters!

By leonmoomin - leonmoomin@ntlworld.com gb Tue 02/09/03 01:51:16 GMT

Website: http://www.umd.net/umdforum/viewtopic.php?t=7841


Chainsaw John of the controversial Wam Awards site has come up with a great idea, if he can pull it off!  He is proposing a virtual wam chat world.  With different areas and shops to rent!

 

If he pulls this off, it would be a great thing!

 

Check out his latest post on the subject!

 

http://www.umd.net/umdforum/viewtopic.php?t=7841

 

My only concearn is that there is not enough shops around the pool and, what the hell is gungegirls doing there?

 

leonmoomin Pulsing

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