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Message # 53981.3.1

Subject: None Re:Producers should read this, then talk with us...

Date: Thu 12/04/12 19:40:00 GMT

Name: MK gb

Email: wamtec@comcast.net

Website:

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AnthonyX's points are spot on.

 

 To add some historical perspective, and how the advent of technology improvements in the last 20 years has had both dramatically positive AND negative effects on the producers abilities to create media, firstly

 

- regarding scripts and scenarios, one should recognize that there have always been 2 kinds of Producers in our world ... i.e. those who only do "modelling scenes"...where there is never any storyline or script and the scenes are more like a wetlook fashion modelling show...or more like a photo shoot captured on video. Some producers have always preferred to do unscripted modelling sessions, not scenarios or scripts, and that is their preferred style. Other producers like Leon, Flaviu and myself, do a wide variety of scenes....some are scripted scenarios, and others are pure modelling sessions. So -- if you prefer to see scripted scenarios, you can easily find several producers who often produce them, but don't expect the producers who only do unscripted modelling sessions to change their style, cos that is not their style or interest. Most of the producers that prefer to focus on unscripted modelling sessions have professional photographic backgrounds, so they are far more interested in the lighting than a script. So....just visit the sites that produce the kinds of media you like, but don't expect a leopard to change it's spots and act like a tiger....cos leopards want to be leopards. not tigers.

 

Regarding the "regression" in the amount of scripted scenarios and feature length videos with storylines that are far less today than they used to be in the 1990's....that is true. In the 1990's you had UK producers Aquantics, Artscene, Buff Films, and Splosh productions all making feature length videos with scripts, as well as Messy Fun and myself in the USA producing lots of feature length viideos with scripts too. E.G. from 1992 until 1996 I produced several 90 minute scripted videos such as The Castaways on Jungle Jane Island, Agent H20 & The Bionic Bimbo, The Super Sweepstakes, The Adventures of Aquagirl, Agent H20 & The Vampires from Hell, Battle of the SSS Superstars, The Bully Girls, The Girl from Atlantis....and several others

 

http://www.aquaentertainment.com/videos/mark-features-c-25_27.html

 

Aquantics and Messy Fun also made over 2 dozen feature film length productions in the 1990s  too

 

As Anthony mentioned, our ability to produce such features is totally budget driven and based on how many customers we had that support us. This set our budgets for what we could and could not afford to do.....and this is where technology advancements over the last 10 years have mostly worked  for "the consumer" but AGAINST us producers....cos in the 1990's there was no such thing as cheap cameras that could produce high quality video productions, cos in order to produce professional quality video in the 1990s you had to spend 15 to 20 grand to buy professional grade cameras like a Sony Betacam SP and you had to spend 25 to 50 grand to buy video editing decks, so this was a major investment to make in video production gear, and the feature length videos that Messyfun, Aquantics and I used to make all cost 20-25 grand per video in production costs. Of course this is nothing like Hollywood spends, but for us, spending 25 grand per video release was quite a lot of money to us small time producers in those days (it cost about the same amount to make "The Blair Witch Project" too)....and we had to finance everything ourselves and wait 2-3 years to get enough sales to recover our costs.

 

Anyway, in the 1990's there was no such thing as cheap digital cameras, so basically that meant that only a small handful of producers in the UK and USA were willing to make the investments needed to produce such media, and there was no competition from amateurs ......as you see today....cos today the HD technology is so good....you can buy a Kodak Playsport or GoPro pocket size camera for $100, and this now produces video quality that only a $25,000 professional camera could have done in the 1990's. So....now...."everybody" is a producer.....i.e. anybody with a cellphone and a girlfriend....ha ha. Also, in the 1990s there was no such thing as "free media".....and since Youtube started in 2005...and with all these cheap HD cameras and free media sites like Youtube......now instead of a small handful of producers who had a loyal fan base where each producers used to have great support and patronage, now today most producers I know have lost 80% of the support they used to have....because now you have 300+ producers and too much competition, and 90% of the wet and messy fans prefer free media sites instead of supporting the producers sites....and now with the current economic recessions in the USA and Europe......you have..... THE PERFECT STORM.....

 

....so...the good news is, technology advances and the growth in the internet have been great for the consumer......but terrible for the producers.....these are the 3 negatiive elements that are killing our ability to produce high quality media......i.e. cheap HD camcorders (where everybody is now a producer) and the birth of free media sites like Youtube ...when added to the economic recessions in the USA and Europe (i.e. people have little disposable income these days....and so they get their jollies from Youtube cos they can no longer support the producers very much)

 

I am not whining.....I am merely stating a fact.....i.e. for the consumer...technology advancements have taken the consumer 5 steps forward.....but for us Producers....we have gotten the same 5 steps forward....only that we are standing in the midst of a 150mph hurricane that is blowing us backwards, cos in the past I could do any script I wanted to do and in the 1990's I could safely invest 10-20 grand to make a nice feature length scripted video on location, but these days there is so much competition and we lost so much our support because of the popularity of Youtube .....which is why I am considering shutting down several of my sites by end of this year....for example www.thewambank.com -- cos that is a perfect example of how Youtube has killed all our support. I opened that site in 2002, before Youtube existed, and we used to have several hundred supporters who joined as members and supported the server costs, but now since Youtube is so popular, we no longer get enough support to pay for the server that hosts theWambank now ....so sadly, unless things improve, we will probably have to close thewambank site by end of this year, cos 90% of our former members no longer support the site and we lost 90% of our uploaders too....so it seems that nobody needs theWambank any more, cos they prefer Youtube instead.....so these are the pros and cons with technology developments.......i.e. when the car was first invented....it caused a lot of horses to be sent to the knackers yard to be put down....ha ha....and it looks like theWambank is the horse and Youtube is the car that people prefer.

 

So basically.....the way things are going with technology these days.....you really do not need producers to create your own fantasies for you....cos if you have a cellphone and a girlfriend....you can do them all yourself.

 

And now I am off to my stable.....cos the work just keeps on piling up.

 

MK

 

 

 

 

In reply to Message (53981.3) None Re:Producers should read this, then talk with us...

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Thu 12/04/12 17:03:25 GMT

Website:


I'm sure all the great WAM producers out there appreciate customer feedback, but I'm also sure the successful ones don't need to be told how to do what they do.

 

Of everything I've ever bought, I can always say "if only...", but there are a few realities to bear in mind...

 

o  You can't please everyone... despite our common interests, there is still a lot of individual variation in what each of us really wants to see.

 

o  It's already a niche market with limited customer base... that means that for a given price point, there is only so much money to be earned from a given video or picture set.

 

o  Limited revenue means limited budget... only so much for models, clothing, equipment, consumables (eg WAM supplies), location, transportation, etc.

 

o  Models are MODELS, not actresses... story needs script, script needs WRITERS and ACTORS, not just some guy with a camera and a girl just having fun. Done as a hobby, you get what you get; done for profit, you get what you pay for.

 

Maybe it is possible to get a different result with a different approach, but there is no guarantee for anybody...

 

What if we took a "community" approach...

 

Step 1: Anyone want to draft up some "fantasy scenarios" as hollywood style short film "treatments" (for a small piece of the final production revenues)?

 

Step 2: Anyone want to take one of those treatments and turn it into a shootable script (also for a piece of the final production revenues)?

 

Step 3: Anyone want to take one of those shootable scripts and produce it into a short film (to sell and split some of the revenues with the writers)?

 

 

 

In reply to Message (53981) Peace Man Producers should read this, then talk with us...

By many of us - us Thu 12/04/12 14:49:13 GMT

Website: itysm


Several visitors in this very good forum are thinking that things could find some renewal. We have very professional producers doing good job with movie making and editing. - Respect. - But read this, please...

 

1 ) Producers are making good movies but sometimes the models don't play enough during the shoot.

 

     Producers are able to reach a very good quality of the lighting, the pictures. It's a real mark of respect for the customers.

 

     But the storyboard is poor... and it's a little boring. No renewal...

 

 

 

2) It will be happy to see producers creating 3 kinds of categories : A) wetlook alone B) wetlook with soap C) wam and destructive

 

    Here we have 3 different tastes. An advice could be to create separate accounts for these different tastes and to advertise more about it. As an example when you go on UMD.net you have 80 % messy,

 

    15 % wetlook and 5 % soapy... (amout of global productions) :-(

 

 

 

3) As future new customers, it's not easy to know what you will find on a website, before subscribing. Samples and full storyboard pictures are really a big incentive to subscribe.

 

    Pix don't need to be big, but should show full action, so one can judge if it is for his tastes or not. Scenarii all need a good renewal, but producers have won a tribute to the quality of their works. Some new

 

    ideas ARE MISSING... BE SOFT, please, (in a world of violence and darkness).

 

 

 

4) Here we have a good website, and moreover there are really good samples of what you can find.

 

    Models are going into a pool, with chlorine.

 

http://splashinfashion.com/Galleries/2011/Tiffany/TiffanyJeans2%20%284%29.jpg , http://splashinfashion.com/Galleries/2011/Tiffany/TiffanyJeans2%20%2824%29.jpg , http://splashinfashion.com/ModelsPages/Tanya.htm , http://splashinfashion.com/Galleries/09Shoots/TanyaJeans1%20%2819%29.jpg , http://splashinfashion.com/Galleries/2010%20img/HeatherJeans1ts%20%286%29.jpg , http://splashinfashion.com/Galleries/2010%20img/HeatherJeans1ts%20%2820%29.jpg

 

 

 

   This chlorine can damage the outfits they had, so I am nearly sure they have taken a shower after exiting to rinse them. It would have been so easy to add some shampoo and soap and shoot another clip to

 

   show the wear and wash process. Please, shoot again some clips doing so ! I will be a subscriber immediately - and may be I will not be alone.

 

 

 

5) Good examples with dare games on youtube : Some times one can find "clothed bubbles baths", "soapy showers", "wear and wash", "dare" games. But only with under aged people or men / cross dressed.

 

    In these cases I never watch and it can't be posted here - what is perfectly normal. It's sad because the way this wetlook is made is the new way to follow... AND IT IS WHAT WE WANT TO SEE.

 

 

 

6) Stories can inspire sometimes : http://www.eddaardvark.co.uk/mmm/various.htm

 

    "Summer shower", as an example...

 

    Many stories on this page for wetlook fans...

 

 

 

7) Good method in 3 points : When producers are wining money enough to pay the bill for the server and some advertising, they don't want to change the balance of economics. So they are frightened to try

 

    new things, even if their models are nice and each shooting quite good. D) They should organize some votes, as an example, here, on this very good forum. E) They should put an e-mail link with a

 

    "SUGGEST IDEAS" for visitors. F) They should give storyboards / full snaps shoots to show what we are about to buy. These 3 ideas could change all the wetlook creation ON A VERY GOOD BASIS,

 

     for sane renewal... This said with friendship and respect.

 

 

 

8) Nice example in french from the past : http://forum.minxmovies.com/showc.cgi?23972 - Re: 12 stories in a row clicking next ! http://forum.minxmovies.com/showc.cgi?23961

 

    SO GOOD STORIES ! Unbelievable and forgotten there !

 

 

 

9) G) Ask people what they want H) Don't ignore potential customers

 

    * It's a good idea to try something different

 

    * It's a good idea to make new things with old good recipes

 

    * It's a good idea to turn stories into videos

 

    * If you launch a new products you can create new customers

 

    * If you launch something different you can find that it is suiting a need

 

    * Small business niches can work fine for a long time has their potential have not been foreseen before

 

    I don't understand why there is status quo in this universe. That's why many websites close or don't meet success.........   

 

I will add here my own point of view, 10) Some models sometimes are making both messy and "soapy wetlook", but it is not the same sensibility, the same art of doing it. But they do. Okay, why not ? But I will suggest - as a gentle favor - that wetlook should be done in a more glamour way, and less coarse one. More funny, more details, more time to do it. More faces and chests. Less jeans back-part (to be polite) and legs, even if we can have and like to behold this too. The ratio is not good ! The smiling face of an angel soaping the front of her blouse 2 minutes is more fun than an a......

 

   Thank you for reading.

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