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Message # 5200.5.1.1.1

Subject: Re: Re: Man, am I glad I have no credit card..

Date: Sun 10/08/03 12:39:21 GMT

Name: Anonymous

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By WETINRED - stekz@cableone.net Sun 10/08/03 06:38:34 GMT

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By crazygirlsbrian - webmaster@crazygirlsinternational.com Sat 09/08/03 22:23:01 GMT

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Previously many adult suppliers used innocent sounding names so the unlike GGW, the type of purchase was not obvious.  In many cases only the billing companys name would appear if the seller did not have a merchant account.  For example for years people who bought a Crazy Girls video had a charge appear as Buy/Secure, which multicards used for all their purchasing.  As multicards is mainly NOT an adult billing company, this could not tell a suspicious wife/gf what it was.

I also did not say WHY Visa is spying on you.  Of course it is government inspired, but if I had said that I would have been attacked as anti-American.  But the fact that  US government regulation is being forced by Visa on Visa cardholders (not only merchants selling to US cardholders) in OTHER countries, even when it is against European Privacy law shows the total contempt the US government has for the democratic rights of other countries.

By meddler72 - meddler72@hotmail.com Sat 09/08/03 14:52:11 GMT

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As for controling charge backs, there are already several ways to keep that from happening. One is the verified by VISA program, another is requiring customers to enter the 3 digit code on the back of their card along with the account number. This code is like a pre-assigned pin. Charge backs aren't as easy as you make them sound either. With the bank I work for, if I customer calls and says a charge is fraudulent then the card IS closed. If the customer says  the charge was un-authorized, then a dispute is filed and it can take up to 45 days for this to be resolved and a credit to be issued. Normally in this case the customer is advised to dispute the charge with the merchant first before filing a dispute with the bank, because they will get a resolution much sooner.

As for the banks being able to see every item purchased during a card transaction that would be impossible. Just think about it listing every single item purchased at a Wal-Mart or a grocery store. It would fry our computer systems and make customer service next to impossible. It's already bad enough having to look through a couple hundred $2 to $20 purchases to find an item.

Besides all that, it already tells us who the merchant is. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out what someone is purchasing. I can't tell you how many times I've got a call from a angry wife/girl-friend that wants to know what the purchase to GGW Videos(Girls Gone Wild) for $19.95 on their statement they just got is. You tell them what it is and that it was done on their husband/boy-friend's card and they say, "Oh man, he's dead" and that's it. No dispute.

By crazygirlsbrian - webmaster@crazygirlsinternational.com Sat 09/08/03 00:49:52 GMT

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You may not know it, but every Visa transaction you make is coded.

That code tells Visa and your bank what TYPE of goods or services you are buying.

And it is NOT only used for statistical reasons.

According to the European banks these and other changes were brought in by Visa at the request of the U.S. government.

For example banks in France, who handle the billing for many online gambling sites, have had many transactions turned down because they refused to use the code that would divulge to Visa that the transaction was for gambling.  This is because France has a privacy law that actually MEANS something.

When they were forced to comply with Visa or face being cut off from Visa, they found that 50% of their sales to US customers were refused by the customers bank because they did not allow their customers to use their Visa card to gamble online.

The privacy and civil liberties implications are obvious.

Your bank has a record not only of what you spend and who with, but the type of goods and services you are buying online and they use this information to decide whether you can use their card.

Do you want your bank to know that you subscribe to adult sites?  No?  Well, despite the innocent-sounding name that may appear on your statement, your bank KNOWS.

Because of this and other recent actions by Visa and MasterCard, the banks in Europe are in discussions about launching a new card, which will free their customers from the all-seeing eye and might of Visa.

In addition, some major banks IN the U.S.A. are looking into starting their own non-Visa cards.  Several are actually in litigation with Visa USA over the matter at the moment as Visa USA are trying to stop them.

It is possible that the European banks may end up refusing to handle Visa and Mastercard although their past cowardice suggests that will not go that far in standing up to Visa.  However, if they do, banks in Asia are threatening to follow suit.

That will mean that the U.S. will be isolated.  Americans will not be able to use their cards in most other countries and most people will not be able to use their cards in the U.S.A.

Canadian banks are watching and waiting to see what happens.

Brian