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Message # 51649.1.2.1

Subject: Note Malvineous - watch out, you are playing with fire!

Date: Sun 28/08/11 05:06:37 GMT

Name: Mahoney pl

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Vidown/Mothership etc is something like the wetlook mafia. They do a great deal for the community, but they are self-righteous and give absolutely no second chances to anyone. I once made the mistake of making a chargeback against one of the producers using the system (an honest mistake, there where many fraudulent charges in the days and this one was real, but the bank annulled them all). I contacted the producer and the Mothership and offered to pay them back. They offered me just ONE choice - by absurdly pricy international bank transfer, not by paypal or the Mothership itself. They also blocked my whole ISP, all my credit cards etc. And when I complained here about the way the Mothership is run (in a thread by another user who had problems with them) I got a very abusive reply on the forum and then the whole thread was deleted - so the forum admin here is also not immune to the "mafia's" practices and his censorship is at their disposal. In that thread others asked about important issues and I asked about treating customers better and giving second chances. The main issue was also that when sites use Vdown/Mothership they use NO ALTERNATIVE. Another mafia-like tendency. Since that time little has changed, however Leonmoomin has started using PayPal and judging by comments here about the service - it is widely popular, so many more people had problems with Soundguy's business. Also he always replies like the "anonymous" reply to you. In rude short sentences and ignoring most of the content. Anyway, what can you say for a company that gives no second chances, but is not fair on their side. The thing you are righting about is breaking all netiquette rules and should be stated before you buy anything using the Vidown/Mothership system. And as for his replies (like the one he gave you). Well, normally a company with such "customer service" with be out of business, but here Soundguy has the backing of MK, Leon and the Admin, so you see...

 

PS: I am very aware, that this post will probably not show at all, be deleted or I might even get a ban for it, but sorry guys, I come from a country that was under fascist and communist rule for decades, we know true censorship here and if there are important issues we speak up. Freedom of expression is important. And so is doing business not only legally but also ethically (we didn't have that till 20 years ago also). So people here are just not that willing to give that up. Even if constructive criticism of some people here is like criticism of the mafia in Naples or Moscow. Especially as times have changed and the old greats like MK no longer hold the community in their hands. They have with no doubts great achievements in the past, but as old empires usually fall, now with the absolutely free HQ Russian material, Flaviu's superb Eurowam (using normal mainstream CC processors) and Leon using Paypal they don't even have their great weapon - "banning".

In reply to Message (51649.1.2) Question Re:Vidown and DownThemAll!

By Malvineous - mrnemesis@ntlworld.com gb Sun 28/08/11 04:45:37 GMT

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You're interfering with download managers by intentionally adding random bytes to Content-Length? That's pretty abusive. It's always frustrated me that browsers ignore Content-Length, because I can never be quite sure that I've got a whole download (lots of servers drop connections randomly under load), and then Internet Explorer always returned the cached copy of the incomplete file instead of trying again (that may be fixed now). The reason Alexander Clauss never implemented Content-Length checking in the iCab browser for the Macintosh was due to the number of sites that return incorrect figures for this header, which was hugely frustrating as it meant trying to get iCab's resume to recognise that a file wasn't complete when the browser swore that it was ...

 

I always feel contempt for anyone who wilfully violates specifications. There is always another answer that doesn't involve lying to the client software. The worst one I saw was the MacHTTP web server which would actually deliberately send back corrupted files under certain circumstances, which was liable to crash your software and possibly the whole computer back before Mac OS X came out.

 

Download managers provide numerous services: a) download several files at once, b) download different segments of the same file at once, c) resume broken downloads, d) queue files so you don't have to spoon feed the downloading. MP3 stores tend to zip up all your files for you, but that's not as practical when every download is larger than a zip full of MP3s. The fact that you need a download manager is a testament to the lack of imagination on the part of browser authors: only iCab on the Mac had comprehensive download manager built in, and Internet Explorer for Macintosh had a download manager that supported resuming and queueing. The Windows world loses out hugely here.

 

Now, you don't have an issue with downloading multiple files at once. The problem of software grabbing multiple segments of the same file at once, should be an easy one to deal with: when an incoming Range header is received, check whether the final byte offset equals the final byte of the file. If it does, then the user agent is attempting to resume a broken download. If it isn't, the user agent is trying to download multiple portions at once. In this case, you can either return 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable to reject the request, or do what I did at WetInRed, and simply return 200 OK together with the complete file to simply pretend that we don't understand ranges at all (may not be the right thing to do ;-) That way, you annoy greedy download managers, and permit both queueing and resuming. (The only reason this isn't all still running at WetInRed is their incorrect understanding of memory usage limited me to five concurrent PHP script executions so my passthrough script became a denial of service bottleneck. It's also probably a WTF that Linux doesn't offer a more accurate way to measure memory consumption, but that IS a difficult problem to deal with as text pages can presumably be shared by different users.)

In reply to Message (51649.1) None Re:Vidown and DownThemAll!

By Anonymous - uu Sat 27/08/11 21:09:03 GMT

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It's not a bug. it's intentional. I do not support download managers.
In reply to Message (51649) Question Vidown and DownThemAll!

By Malvineous - mrnemesis@ntlworld.com gb Sat 27/08/11 14:48:55 GMT

Website:


There's a bug in Vidown's Perl-based passthrough system wherein the Content-Length of downloads is randomly mis-reported by a few bytes (but always by the same amount for the same file – I don't know what he's doing wrong, although as a Perl programmer I may be able to figure out where he's going wrong). Browsers ignore incorrect Content-Length headers (sadly) but DownThemAll! is smart enough to check it, in order to support automatic resuming. In this case, however, Vidown doesn't provide resume support (which is pretty trivial really) so DownThemAll! is trapped in an infinite loop re-downloading complete 400 MB movie files because the site won't report the right size.

 

When you put in a large order with someone like Erik Elsas, it would be very useful to be able to queue up all the files and leave it running as there's hours of downloading to get through. I don't use DownThemAll! for acceleration – in fact I successfully campaigned for better support for intelligent unaccelerated downloading. I just want a queue facility, so I can leave all the downloads going without having to sit at my PC for hours nannying it. I had a much larger set of files to download from Mostwam, but they use a different system ad the queue completed flawlessly while I spent most of the day away from my PC.

 

I reported this bug ages ago to Erik who passed it on to Patrick at the Mothership, who refuses to look at the problem. I don't imagine there's any way to persuade him to actually fix this?

 

(I doubt he'd let me add resuming support to his code, either.)

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