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Message # 45559.1.1.1.2

Subject: Re:...one for Arthur Chappell

Date: Tue 10/08/10 11:56:30 GMT

Name: Arthur+Chappell

Email: arthur@chappell7300.freeserve.co.uk

Website: http://arthurchappell.me.uk/wetlook-contents.htm

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Cheers for inviting me into this discussion. Read the threads and the article with some interest. The complaint about a wet T over a bra or swimsuit top seems extreme and petty - if the complaints came from the same individual or group of water park users it may be that they have other motives for disliking this lady - the police seem to have moved from looking into the matter, as is their right and even obligation as a complaint has been made, to pressuring the lady for her identity, to possibly leave the park and not return in such clothes if at all, and to exploiting her reluctance to comply, by arresting her quite forcibly. That her child saw this must be distressing for him. The husband seemed to watch the whole thing from a distance but didn't intervene on his wife's behalf which is rather odd and sad.

Many people take their children to such parks, with or without water and see them as for the children, but fear perverts and molesters might be behind every tree so they watch other grown ups like hawks for any sign of suspicious behaviour interpreting much into their paranoid mind sets. A lady turns up looking sexy, getting in with her son and therefore with the other kids, not being a puritanical distant protector, - her alleged nipple display, no worse than if she'd been caught in heavy rain, was too much for the self rightous and action was taken. That they went to the police and not to the park admin or security shows intent to make life bad for the lady. Surely the park has strict guidelines on who can wear what in the water at any age or time - surely they have the right to tell the lady to dress more in keeping with their rules or even if necessary in their eyes, to ask her to leave. Why were the police even involved?

So the cops arrive - what did they ask - for the woman to get dressed? Slip into swimwear? Dry off & Go home? Only her dare not to give her name to non-arresting officers turned them into arresting officers. In effect, they wanted her on record without taking action against her - she forced them into action. She was probably taking her right to get wet in her tee shirt as a civil liberty and saw the various attacks on her as 'offensive' as the thing to be really offended about - in doing so she's made her case more public so hopefully more people will speak out in her defence and more places will lighten up on clothed swimming for all AC http://arthurchappell.me.uk/wetlook-contents.htm

In reply to Message (45559.1.1.1)

Re:...one for Arthur Chappell

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net Mon 09/08/10 14:37:57 GMT

Website:

I guess it's all a question of modesty and social values.

Assuming this woman was wearing a bra which "maintained her modesty" i.e. did not reveal nipples/areolas apart from a little "poky"ness when wet, I'd have to favour her side - the complainants and the police had nothing to complain about.

If she was wearing a thin, white bra which put her breasts on full display when wet, then I think the complainants and the police had a case under the banner of community standards for public deceny.

Unfortunately, the article doesn't go into any detail on this point - we're left to our own imaginations as to just how much her bra and t-shirt actually revealed when wet, and how much is too much for public decency in her community.

Since this was apparently not her first wet t-shirt incident at this park (just the first one which involved the police), there is perhaps one unexplored element to the whole story - that of friction between the woman in question and the complainants. Imagine, if you will, a scenario in which "mom" happens to get her t-shirt wet, unintentionally reveals just a little too much, and a bystander calls over to her suggesting/requesting that she perhaps exercise a little more discretion next time. "Mom" takes offence at being told what to do, so next time at the park she intentionally creates a bit of a display in a sort of act of defiance. This raises the ire of the bystanders who warn her "do that again and we'll call the cops". Now "mom" becomes even more defiant in the face of such a threat, and prepares for a more overt display which she delivers on her next visit. One of the bystanders calls the cops, and we have our situation. I'm not saying that that I think this happened, but is reasonable to think that something along these lines could have happened... as to what really happened, we'll probably never know.

Regardless of how revealing her wet t-shirt might have been, it does seem that the police took a needlessly heavy-handed approach to the situation. While it would have been helpful for them to get her full name for their records, I'm sure it was not a necessity and they could have relented, and let it go with a gentle warning as to community standards.

In reply to Message (45559.1.1)

...one for Arthur Chappell

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Mon 09/08/10 12:01:36 GMT

Website:

Our resident wetlook forum historian Arthur Chappell has written lots of interesting articles in his blogs about the historical and psychological aspects of wetlook thru the ages and in modern times. I am sure he can offer some insights on this subject, but I will throw in a few nuggets to start the debate rolling ...

1) I agree with wetwhiteandblue, i.e. the lady was complained about because others found her wet t shirt to be "offensive" -- but she was not bra less -- and so wearing a bra under a t shirt is no different to wearing a bikini top under a t shirt, so this is a ridiculous argument. It could only be "offensive" to some people (not me) if she were bra-less.

2) You can't make the argument that nipple pokies seen thru a bra are "offensive"....cos the most famous brand name in the world for manufacturing swimsuits are SPEEDO....and all Speedo swimsuits show nipples....it is impossible to wear a Speedo swimsuit without showing nipples. And so if you want to ban nipple pokies from waterparks, then you would have to ban all Speedo swimsuits...and also ban them all from THE OLYMPIC GAMES too.....ha ha...creating a whole new catgerory of swimming races....i.e. the pokie-less games....ha ha

3) If you read the article further, it says that this woman was a Latina woman of Peruvian descent, and all you need to do is check Youtube and you will see that 99% of all Latina women bathe in a t shirt and shorts....so this lady was merely observing her own culture and using a t shirt and shorts for modesty reasons.

4) What we have here...is a case of cultural insensitivity, and a lack of respect for Latina culture....which is NOT to wear a traditional swimsuit, but to wear t shirts and shorts instead. This can be seen in every country in South America and most countries in Asia too.

5) Note the hypocrisy of the authorities, i.e. if she had been a muslim woman, being clothed while bathing....nobody would DARE to touch that subject, cos countries are very sensitive to muslims and their culture, so nobody would dare to go after a muslim woman bathing in a t shirt.

6) To be fair, most waterparks in Florida that I have been to, do have signs posted that say "no Thongs allowed".....cos people in bible belt States like Florida and Georgia do find thongs to be offensive....so they are banned from waterparks (the Thongs are a race of people who come from Brazil.....ha ha)

7) To be fair, there are some public safety issues if you go on the waterslides....so most waterparks will ban jeans or any clothings that have belts or buckles that can get caught and injure somebody on the waterslides (and those bans are not because they are interested in your personal safetly, but because they want to protect THEMSELVES from lawsuits if somebody gets caught up on waterslide and injured.

The irony of all this is....the parents who complained about this poor lady cos it was "offending" them....probably had small kids in the pool....and their kids were probably offending people too...by doing what all kids do....i.e. peeing in the pool....ha ha.

Just to throw in another nugget to show how inconsisent the law is....regarding nipples.......most cites now allow mothers to breast feed their babies in public places...and on some public transport systems too....and there are laws everywhere that allow women to breastfeed in public, so that is not deemed to be offiensive...so how can nipples be offensive then.....and I will give you my definition what I find "offensive".....i.e. one time I was eating a chinese restaurant....when the woman on the next table who had a screaming baby that was annoying everybody with this baby.....then decides to place the baby on the table next to me...and change it's diaper....right in the middle of me eating my meal....now THATS offensive.

And as far a babies on airplanes go.....which is a pet peeve of mine...when parents with babies check in...they should be given 2 choices for their babies....i.e. "Do you want it to get shipped by Fedex or UPS"....ha ha

Anyway....over to you guys...

In reply to Message (45559.1)

Re:A sad commentary about how uptight people can be!

By wetwhiteandblue - Mon 09/08/10 09:43:35 GMT

Website:

Yes, this is a sad commentary! It would have been a different story if she was braless, but this wasn't the case! Even if the nipples were poking through her bra, that also shouldn't be an issue, cos I've been to public pools and you can still see pokies some bathing suits - both young and old!

God save me from the good people! Heavens forbid if they should ever decide to go to a public beach! Oh the horror!

That's my commentary!

In reply to Message (45559)

A sad commentary about how uptight people can be!

By Grif - Mon 09/08/10 08:53:54 GMT

Website:

I'd love to have her come to this board and be welcomed with open arms!

-Grif

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/lake/os-tavares-arrest-wet-t-shirt-20100805,0,1313125.story

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