Wetlook World Forum

Message # 45004.6.1.1.1.1.1.1

Subject: Re:I'm with you, and like Nigel's optional registration idea

Date: Tue 29/06/10 17:53:30 GMT

Name: Mr. Multiple Personality

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Website:

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Tue 29/06/10 16:31:24 GMT

Website:

MK

By Malvineous - mrnemesis@ntlworld.com Tue 29/06/10 15:50:14 GMT

Website:

Quite simply, there are benefits that are hard to support without giving a person a permanent entry in a users database. And these benefits are not worth providing if impersonation is possible.

However, I strongly believe that people should be allowed to just pop by and leave a comment without registering, without the associated hindrance. I know I'd register! Registration also allows for publicly anonymous private messaging, but I think that's getting outside of the realms of likely upgrades :-)

I've just set myself up with OpenID on my domain which means that I can work with any OpenID-enabled site easily, although it's a pain when a site STILL wants you to register an account -- just with an OpenID login this time -- even though I've just given it a highly credible identity hosted off my own domain! I don't want to fark about registering and filling in details just to make a quick comment. However it does mean that I don't need a username or password for that site, as I provide my OpenID, and then I just log into my site with my master login to authenticate. If my server is set up right *and* their site is set up right also, it should be able to extract my real name, avatar, country, language, e-mail address, IM identities, website, avatar and more automatically making registration a trivial process, but so far, on the Stack Overflow family of sites, that's never worked. Worse, I had to register separately for each site within their collective, and then go around joining all my accounts together DESPITE all of them being created with the SAME OPENID!! Seriously WTF? And for tech sites, they're very buggy :P

Having said that, I am hardly about to use my public, clean OpenID with a fetish site :P I could, however, obtain an OpenID easily from another service if needed.

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Tue 29/06/10 15:10:52 GMT

Website:

I would be fine with that....so long as

a) If you opt to register, then there is a username ip control that prevents anybody else from also using your username....and

b) If you choose not to register....thats cool....but then you are only allowed to lurk and read...and you cannot make any postings (unless you register).

MK

By Malvineous - mrnemesis@ntlworld.com Tue 29/06/10 14:54:07 GMT

Website:

What would be really interesting is if everyone was assigned a GUID cookie and if you chose to register, all existing posts marked with that GUID would be retroactively counted as yours too :-) However, I doubt that enough data exists to do that without starting all unregistered users' post counts at zero. Even if my browser knows my post count, the forum doesn't know which posts were made by me, although to my knowledge I don't think anyone has been stupid enough to impersonate me -- why would anyone want to do that? ;-)

Another system that's long used optional registration is IRC (Internet Relay Chat) -- no-one is forced to register, but you get privileges for registration including a permanent record in the user database and ownership of your name, and the ability to boot off anyone who's using your name (why they can use it at all is another matter, but IRC is a little under-developed ;-)

The ability to increment a post's or a person's thanks/karma/reputation is also well known and a nice idea -- YouTube is one of the most well known examples but forum systems also use it, Mepis Lovers comes to mind. Make sure that you implement it via AJAX for speed, to avoid tedious page reloads. Simple AJAX is staggeringly easy -- even using XML is not required, it's just suggested (by the fools who think XML is a remotely sensible data format). You can send HTML, CSV/tab-delimited and anything else you want down the request :)

I do disagree though that a post with the icon is a way to say thanks as it does indeed lower the signal to noise ratio with lots of content-less posts that make it hard to follow genuine discussion. The biggest problem here is that the post icons are **not all the same size** so trying to figure out the hierarchy is tricky, especially when you want to read a whole branch at once (by opening the final leaf) and there are tons of "[nt]" posts at varying indentations, none of which have any remote value as far as discussion goes. Some layout clean-up with dedicated columns for status (the blue arrow) and decoration (the post icon) would help readability. I'm tempted to suggest also that we scrap the hierarchical posting as it's tedious to read, or at least, offer a flat view, or at least use the UI to subtly discourage creating branches.

I think that was more than my 2¢/2p (currency conversion rates notwithstanding) but I hope it was constructive.

By FountainFrolic - Tue 29/06/10 13:58:29 GMT

Website:

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Tue 29/06/10 13:10:20 GMT

Website:

I also do not like "anonymous" posters either....this is totally against normal protocol followed by all other forums on the internet....i.e. anonymous posters are NOT allowed to post messages on all the other forum softwares on the net. Anonymous posters are often troublemakers and trolls.

Personally I would to see a full registration system installed with ip controls over all usernames, but if the majority of the forum folks still prefer to have an "open forum"...which means...open to abuse by people who can steal your usernames and impersonate you.....then at least lets have some username controls....i.e.

a) Once a person uses a particular username....that will get flagged against that person's computer ip address...and no other person should be allowed to post using that same username if their ip address does not match to the original person who owns that username....and

b) Anonymous people should not be allowed to post. If you wish to remain anonymous....thats cool...then you are welcome to be a lurker and reader of the forum, but you should not be allowed to post. That is the normal protocol on every other forum on the internet.

MK

By Nigel - nigel@wetlook.com Tue 29/06/10 10:54:32 GMT

Website: www.wetlook.com

1 as most people already do, you can reply with a thumbs up or many other icons etc

>We have all these message icons that folks can use on this forum...most of which are silly and irrelevant.....but not one single icon for "thanks"....how ironic.

See above ! ?

2 I started working on this sometime ago, but to work properly, it requires users to be logged in, otherwise it is too easy for people to cheat, and vote for their own posts, even with IP checking, this is easy enough to get around.

So, we need a login system here ! At least that is what some people want to see. Personally, and I get a lot of good feedback about this, I like the forum being completely open. Yes it gives me a headache at times, but I think most people agree it gives a far fresher feel to the place, and encourages more posts.

Therefore, what I started working on last year was an optional registration. This allows people to reserve their posting name (possibly more than 1) and will then mark posts by registered users with a star (for example). Registered users would still have the option of posting 'anonimously' or using another, non-registered name. Registered users would be able to give "thumbs up" (thanks) points or "thumbs down" points to any post. Non-registered users can still post, but I was going to use a smaller font for their posts, and still allow thumbs up/down votes, but weight them as necessary to avoid abuse. I would then also have the option to disable postings from non-registered users if and when necessary.

Unfortunately, work on all this stalled, as I have lots of real (paid) work to do. I can't remember the last time that anybody bothered to make a donation towards running the forum... so I'm not overly encouraged to spend lots of time making improvements.

However, if I get time, and encouragement, then I will finish this off.

Nigel

Forum Admin