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Message # 3775.3.1

Subject: Re: Re: Wetlook models - Part I

Date: Thu 22/05/03 17:00:41 GMT

Name: kev

Email: kev.styx@ntlworld.com

Website: www.styxfreeworld.com

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Mark's spot on with this.

It's best to be honest about what the purpose of the material is- that way there's no arguements either during or after a shoot.

Actually telling a girl that what she's doing has a turn on effect for guys has a brilliant effect. There's no point in hiding this aspect- it actually has a positive effect if you are honest with them.

Most don't believe that people are turned on by such stuff, but once convinced they love the idea! When you explain, you can see their eyes light up and a big grin appear on their faces- they really like the idea.

The way we portray it, is that the girl can do something sexy and sensual without it degenerating into a crude porno flick.

The response is great. Girls who normally do adult material consider wetlook as being "upmarket" and wholesome compared to what they are normally asked to do.

On the other hand, girls who wouldn't dream of doing porno movies love the idea of being able to do something that people find a turn on, without being expected to do things that they consider disgusting.

As a result we get loads of models contacting us to do shoots, they thoroughly enjoy themselves and tell their friends. Good examples of this are: Louise, she told her sisters about wetlook shoots and they were really keen to get involved. Charisma's sister, after hearing about the shoots we did, has contacted us about doing some shoots.

The list goes on and on- we have over 20 new girls lined up for shoots this summer!

The thing to bear in mind is that women are not innocent porcelain dolls, they are real people. They enjoy doing sexy things, they enjoy being admired and love the thought of turning guys on. If they can do that without the "danger" of things going too far, then you get a fantastic response.

So my advice is, even with amateur models, tell them the real truth- you'd be suprised at the results : )

In reply to Message (3775.3)

Re: Wetlook models - Part I

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com Thu 22/05/03 12:10:08 GMT

Website:

An interesting dissertation...and oh I wish the 1990's and this decade were as things were in the past...but sadly times have changed a bit now. Your hirings of models in the good old days worked well for you in those days...but I think most of the times you are referring to were experiences you had back in the 1950's and 1960's, and to be fair to the audience, I think thats an important aspect to mention, because from what you have told us, you have not really been active since the 1970's...and things have now changed a lot from the great times of your past. I wish I could have been a wetlook photographer in the same era that you had so much fun in...cos I agree with you..things were a lot more innocent and easy going in the 1950's and 60's.

The main point I am getting at is your point number 1)....and while that may have been an ideal scenario for the 1950's and 60's...in today's world of lawyers and litigation...item number one would be viewed plainly and simply as "deception" and not being forthcoming and telling the models what the aim or intended use of the materials are for.

I have several producer friends (whom I will not name...cos many of them are not on this forum anyway...but some are) who have made the fatal mistake of being deceptive and not fully explaining to their girls what the genre is all about...i.e. sorry to say this...but you have to be blunt and honest with the girls..i.e. guys get off on this stuff...plain and simple as that. If you don't fully explain to the girls that wetlook is "a fetish"..and guys get their rocks off to this stuff...then you could be heading for legal trouble if and when the models find out that the purposes for which the materials are being used, is not what they understood it to be when they posed for you.

One of my producer friends right this moment has a lawsuit against him, from 3 of his former models...who felt they were deceived and misled and they were given this apple pie story of "fun" in the water, and were naive enough not to figure out that they were actually appearing in fetish videos the guy was selling, and when they did find out...the !@$$ hit the fan. And now he has 2 civil suits against him.

I can think of at least 5 other amateur producers who got into a heap of legal trouble over not full disclosing the nature of their shoots with their girls too.

These days...the ONLY way to approach a model...is with FULL disclosure...i.e. telling them WHAT the genre is all about, WHAT they will be doing, WHAT turns the fetish fans on..etc etc. That may sound crass...but honesty is the best policy...and the girls will appreciate you for that .. the girls who are comfortable with doing fetish work...will have no problems with it. The girls that are freaked out or uncomfortable with it...thats fine too...they go away and you never see them again...and thats how it should be.

I know I have had many debates with a good friend of mine...i.e. Wetfan of vintage archives fame...who shares the same views as you do Sopping..i.e. that wetlook is fun and is not a fetish...but I don't buy that argument that the G rated wetlook folks are doing this for "good clean fun" and they are not like us dirty old r rated wetlook erotica porno people like me....I don't buy that argument. There is no such thing a "high brow" wet fans and low brow wet fans...we are all one and the same. Whether the girl stays fully clothed all the time and never does erotic poses....or whether you make more erotic videos as Nigel as I do...the end result is still the same...i.e. guys get off on this stuff...so we are all the same....therefore I tend to disagree with points 2 and 3 you raise as well...because this is merely burying one's head in the sand and refusing to accept that you are a fetishist no different to those of us who make the more erotic videos. And therefore your "wolf in sheep's clothing" approach to dealing with the models might have been ok in the 1950's and 60's....but is very unwise to try that in this day and age. I may be a wolf...but I show myself to the girls as a wolf...and they know I am wolf and can handle it....cos I pay well....I don't try to be a wolf in sheep's clothing to the girls.

I agree...this is a very interesting article you have written...but this is not something I feel should be adopted in today's world....openness and honesty is the only way to deal with anybody you photograph and film...and all the top producers in this genre are VERY careful to make sure they are totally upfront with all their girls. Your article should really be archived as a piece of history on how things used to be 25-30 years ago....but not presented as a way of doing things today.

Please remember...you have been out of the wetlook photography for at least 25 years.

The professional producers all know how to hire and treat the girls in a totally honest way....it is the amateurs who mess up and get into trouble by trying to save costs (not paying a model) and then spinning the girl a story that this is "fun" or some project they are doing, or lifesaving lessons or some other load of baloney.

If anybody has any doubts about what I am saying...i.e. don't be deceptive with the girls...and tell them the WHOLE story before you start filming them. .....then email me and I will tell you some of the horror stories of several amateur producers I know who got into legal troubles cos of not fully telling the girls what they were doing with these materials.

Sopping's article is an interesting piece...but it should be clearly labelled as a thing that only relates to his past history of the 1950's to 70's...not as a road map on how to treat the girls of this era.

In reply to Message (3775)

Wetlook models - Part I

By Sopping - Thu 22/05/03 04:56:36 GMT

Website:

A while back, there was a discussion here of the potential of using Outcall girls as wetlook models. The concept was shot down, as, IMHO it should have been. It could be tricky, and could cost big bucks. So, as a public service for the cause, I thought I would present a little history of my soaking models from over the past decades, and how it worked out. This is part I- domestic

My basic rules in negotiation for a model are: .1. Do NOT emphasize the sexual turn-on of wetlook.

2.Make the point that a photo of a girl in wet clothing is sexy, and is an attention getter, and is often more effective than a swimsuit photo.

3. Show other photos you have taken, or shots you have downloaded.(or both) Do not stress C-thru, pantihose, underwear, or anything that would be considered kinky. At least not on your first sessions.

Believe me, people, this approach has worked for years! Many of the photos from these endeavors have been posted or linked here. ALL are photo sessions, not for gratification!

1. In the USA:

In Florida, I engaged two professional models for two separate wading-in-the-ocean shoots. My sources were the Agencies listed in the Miami and Ft.Lauderdale Yellow Pages. I visited their assignment offices; explained what I wanted; and they were available the next day, They appeared to thoroughly enjoy getting wet, and they had fun in the sea wearing their own skirts, blouses, dresses and jeans. It was not too pricey; I did not have to invest in clothes, and a good time was had by all.

In the Washington DC: area

I convinced the manager of a nearby womans' specialty shop, -a lovely young lady by the way - to wear an attractive but inexpensive dress from her stocks into the fountain at her mall. I paid for the dress and a very moderate fee for her time. She had fun;kept the dress; and was more than willing to pose for a second session in her own jeanskirt. She not only had a ball, but convinced a co-worker in her shop to pose for me for another photo session at another time!

At a trade show I convinced two models, who had been demonstrating something or other, to participate in a wetlook session at the swimming pool of the apartment in which they lived.

I convinced three girls, on three separate occasions to wade in a fountain where they were sitting having lunch. Getting wet took only a little more encouragement after they started wading. I also convinced a librarian having lunch at the same fountain to “wade.” And yes, she was eventually drenched.

I convinced two attractive government interns, new to the city, that it would be fun to cool off in a fountain on a summer day. I also persuaded two lovely young tourists from Florida to get drenched in their skirts and blouses. While picking up the prints from this session, I noticed a smashing young lady, whom I recognized as the receptionist for a nearby health club. I showed her some of the prints and asked her to model. As she had modeling aspirations herself, she was eager to participate. She got a set of prints, I got some great shots.

On two occasions, I rented a dunk tank - also Yellow pages, on the condition that the secretary from the rental outfit would participate in a fully clothed dunking demonstration. This was fun, and practical.

This is the end of Past 1. Japan and Asia follows, if you are interested.

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