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Message # 24980.5.1

Subject: Talking Re: So what do you have for free, to trade?(Con't)

Date: Fri 29/09/06 11:55:13 GMT

Name: soak_ed de

Email: soak_ed@hotmail.com

Website: http://justaddwater.grayhost.net/

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One more thing, one of the few true "professionals" out there besides MK is Graham and Kev from Styx.  High quality, high res, well designed, etc.  But Graham does web stuff for a living, which is also another way to define professional.   
In reply to Message (24980.5) Confused Re: So what do you have for free, to trade?(Con't)

By soak_ed - soak_ed@hotmail.com de Fri 29/09/06 11:50:57 GMT

Website: http://justaddwater.grayhost.net/


Posted this below before I saw the continuation so here is my 2 euro cents (with some additional comments):

 

Interesting discussion here.  I can see both sides although there is no need for tempers to flare.  Regarding Steve's post, Frank did metion that there was a difference between the "professional" producers and folks like Todd and Jennifer.  Steve, if you and the other "professional" producers stop posting freebie previews of your products I do believe your business would dry up (couldn't resit that pun).  So if you want to do that fine.  Sure, in the good old days there were a lot more amature shots posted here and there but let's face it the internet is becoming very much a cash producing thing and I dont see that changing.  Like Frank, we don't ever intend to charge for our modest contribution because it is my way of paying back for all the freebies I have collected over the years.  The other reason I won't charge is I want the leisure of knowing I am not under any pressure to update. I do when I do and Veronica is in the mood and the batteries are charged etc.  If I was going to charge money I would feel compelled to update more often and that takes a lot of time and effort, for us it is a hobby, not a business.  I don't see anything wrong with Todd and Jennifer charging a few bucks for thier photos, they do an awful ot of them.  It is certainly anybody's right to do what they want and the individuals looking always have the option to look elsewhere.  There are still a lot of Webshots, etc. out there.   I do feel if people are going to run a "professional" site they need to have free samples, it is called advertising and companies spend billions of dollars on it all the time.  If they didn't, their business would go down the drain (damn another wet pun).   The other thing "profesionals" usally try to avoid is insulting their customers, so Steve, you are free to say what you want but their is always a price to pay for that freedom.

I think one of the big problems with some of the "professional" producers is they are not true professionals.  They are hobbyists on steroids as it were.  These folks have no idea of the amount of time and money and hassle it takes to run a business.  Some people apparently think if you post it and charge for it, they will pay.  Um, not quite.  Look at the amount of start up businesses that fail each year and some of these are backed by millions of dollars!  Then some wet, red guy puts up a site, charges for their stuff and wonders why they aren't getting rich.  It takes a thick skin to run a business as well as a lot of advertising (cost), time (cost), equipment (cost) and ass kissing (putting up with complaints because if you are to survive in a business, by god the customer is usually right even if they are wrong).  The thing is most of the so called "professional" producers are neither professionals or amatures.  They are somewhere in between and a lot of them are quite naive about what a business is really about.  I have some knowledge from where I speak as I was raised in a family retail business.  80 hour weeks were the norm for my father and seeing as how I was younger I only worked 30-40 hour weeks along with little distractions like going to school and trying to have a life.  It is a lot of hard work and not always a lot of reward.  Of course Mark Kelly is the exception, he is more of a wetlook philanthropist. tossing hundred dollar bills into the pool along with pretty clothed ladies while sipping his Cristal and watching the hired help polish his Rolls in the driveway of his sattelite dish encrusted mansion.  BTW Mark, is it true those sattelite dishes are covered in gold leaf for optimum reception?

In reply to Message (24980) Angry Re: So what do you have for free, to trade?(Con't)

By WETINRED - stekz@cableone.net us Fri 29/09/06 09:34:53 GMT

Website: http://www.liquidladies.org


This is a continuation of Frank's thread below, so it doesn't get burried.

 

It all comes down to the fact that y'all have gotten so much free stuff in the last couple of years, that ur all spoiled brats and have no conception of the money and time involved in making wetlook for u. So any site or producer that wants to try to recoup his investment, y'all won't support us. And when we do provide free sample images and/or video trailers, all we ever hear is critisism about it. So why provide free stuff anymore. There was several thousands of dollars invested in our LL cruise and ur damn right we're gonna try and break even with dvd/cd sales. What if all us producers, and website owners decide to stop putting out anymore free material indefinitly? Wonder what would happen to this community. So I am calling for all WAM producers to stand united and to stop posting free material. Completely! Until further notice. No More!  Peace Man

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