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Message # 21624.2.1.1.1.1.1

Subject: Hello Re: Re: Re: Didn't you know... (getting way off topic now)

Date: Thu 06/04/06 13:17:39 GMT

Name: MK us

Email: wamtec@compuserve.com

Website:

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I hear what you are saying.....I just chuckle when I see assinine programming in every day systems....for example....nothing is more idiotic and annoying than automated telephone answering systems that most corporations use these days. You can't speak to a human any more....they make you listen to an automated system that is completely dumb.....for example....every time I call up any help line phone number for my cable company or electric company or my satellite provider....these stupid systems will say..."in order to serve you better....please punch in your area code and phone number and your account number".....and then after sending you on a labyrinth of options.....about 100 keystrokes later....you FINALLY get to talk to a human being....and the FIRST question they ask you is.....WHATS YOUR PHONE NUMBER AND ACCOUNT NUMBER.....so being the hard ass that I am....I say to that person...."why do you need to ask me for this info all over again....cos I already typed all that info into your wonderful automated telephone system........and the person always says...."Oh...I cannot see your info on my screen"....to whit I am thinking....whats the bloody point of this automated phone system then....it loses all your info after you enter it. What bright spark did the programming on this system.

 

If anybody else is as frustrated with automated phone systems as I am.....there are some great websites that tell you how to bypass all these automated systems and what buttons to punch in order to drop out and get connected to a human being immediately. Normally....just keep on pounding away on the "zero" button many times....that usually does the trick....ha ha.

 

In reply to Message (21624.2.1.1.1.1) Hello Re: Re: Didn't you know... (getting way off topic now)

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Thu 06/04/06 09:18:38 GMT

Website:


I'm in exactly that industry. I've done a LOT of software development over the years. Dealing with exception conditions is a real headache at times. Ideally, those exception conditions should never even occur, but it can be very difficult to identify the conditions where they may occur and deal with them proactively. It can add significantly to the complexity of a piece of software. The extra work involved doesn't contribute to "getting the job done" for all or most cases, so some programmers won't bother with it. When exception conditions do occur, responding gracefully also adds a lot of complexity. Without the develper going the extra mile to properly handle exceptions, the operating system steps in with some rather cryptic messages. These messages are typically aimed at the developer to help him understand what he may have done wrong in his program. When a user sees such a message, it often seems to take on a whole other meaning, but it reflects a programmer's carelessness, negligence, or simple laziness, not arrogance. Often, these messages don't even provide much help to the developer. Finally, proper testing can reveal a lot of mistakes, situations a programmer failed to anticipate, or invalid assumptions a programmer made. With a proper test cycle, a developer can eliminate the cause of most problems, so you'd never even see them, but testing is often compromised in the interest of expedience.

 

You do get what you pay for. Software development is labour intensive and requires a lot of expertise and attention to detail, which makes it expensive when done properly. When done "on the cheap", the result is unstable and when it fails, results in cryptic error messages, if any messages at all. Never trust free or cheap software. To be done right, someone who knows what he/she is doing had to go to a lot of work to get it that way. That person almost certainly got paid for their efforts, and that money had to come from somewhere. If that cost isn't either reflected in a purchase you made (either the software itself or a piece of hardware), chances are the programmer didn't get much money for his work (if any at all), and probably didn't expend a whole lot of effort in doing it right.

 

FYI: "Illegal operation" actually refers to the hardware. It generally means something inside the application screwed up so bad that what the computer expects to be its next  instruction actually isn't an instruction at all. "Access violation" is similar. It means the computer is trying to work in a part of its memory its not supposed to - another symptom of an application screwing up for any of a number of reasons. Both of these types of messages are typical results of a programmer who committed all of the sins I described above: (1) Failed to deal with a condition he probably should have anticipated, (2) Failed to implement a graceful response to the unexpected, and (3) Failed to subject his work to proper testing.

In reply to Message (21624.2.1.1.1) Hello Re: Didn't you know...

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com us Thu 06/04/06 08:11:28 GMT

Website:


Yeah.....I know......

 

Being a lay-person who uses technology....and not being a "geek"....it is just a pet peeve of mine...when technology people try to pass the blame for THEIR crappy systems onto us lay-people...and they blame US whenever their systems are no good, and they attempt to treat us lay-people like we are idiots.

 

For example...I get particularly annoyed...when you are using a piece of software....and the software crashes....and the programmer has created arrogant error messages that says "YOU....have committed a an illegal operation - a fatal error has occurred".....as if it was MY fault that their crappy software crashed.

 

Software developers and programmers should be a lot more humble with the error messages that create for their programs.....cos I would be a lot more respectful of techie people if they were more honest and would admit to the faults in their programs.....i.e. when a program crashes....it would be nice to see more humble error message....such as "Woops....the program has crashed....but hey....what do you expect...it was a free download or a cheap software anyway....so we have not ironed out all the wrinkles yet.....try re-booting and don't push things too far....our systems are not perfect....but we are trying our best to improve them as we go"....ha ha

 

MK

In reply to Message (21624.2.1.1) Hello Didn't you know...

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Wed 05/04/06 20:47:33 GMT

Website:


When they are the ones holding your money, nothing is ever their fault.

 

Of course it is not in their interest to admit to a security breach, because it would certainly become public knowledge and undermine confidence in the service. The problem is that not admitting to an obvious problem can also undermine confidence.

 

I think that by admitting responsibility for the incident, they become legally obligated to make up the loss. As long as they can plausibly push responsibility back to you, they keep themselves off the hook. You'd have to prove negligence on their part (impossible without inside help). If it was a case of a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars here or there, I'll bet they would absorb the loss because it would help to reinforce confidence. It sounds like this was a big issue involving a large number of client accounts and a large amount of money. They probably would prefer to risk the hit in confidence than accept a big hit to the bottom line.

 

In reply to Message (21624.2.1) Hello Re: fyi - scrub Ikobo from the list too

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com us Wed 05/04/06 18:14:24 GMT

Website:


And I have read the Moneybookers terms of service rules again today.....and I cannot figure out what rule they using to ban us....cos their rules only state ...no gaming sites, no money laundering, no "illegal porn".....and none of my sites are "illegal porn"....all my sites are totally legal under U.S. law and I pay taxes on my business income like every good citizen does.

 

I never tried IKOBO cos I had heard horror stories about them as well....and NOCHEX should have been called NOGOOD....cos that service is no good...and Stormpay are a rip off with their high fees.

 

The gaul of Moneybookers.....telling me that "I" was being shut down "for security reasons" is the ultimate in hypocrisy.....cos THEY are the ones who are a security risk....not me.....cos their system is totally insecure....cos when I first started using them.....after a few months.....my balance of several hundred dollars suddenly disappeared one day.....somebody hacked into their system...and raided loads of accounts and cleaned out loads of people's accounts...including mine. They did an investigation on who hacked into my account and stole my balance...and all they could do was trace it to some bogus yahoo account and an ip address in eastern europe....but they would never admit that their security system had been hacked....all they did was to try and blame me and say that I must have shared my id and password with somebody....but then I told them....even I somebody had stolen my username and password...in order to make a withdrawal....you have to type your birth date into the system before making withdrawals....so how could any password trader know what my date of bith is......so somebody went UNDERNEATH their security systems...and just raided people's accounts via a backdoor entrance to our accounts.

 

So....I don't think much of any institution trying to tell me that "I" am a security risk... (especially when I worked in the Banking industry and credit card fraud areas for 17 years...so I know what security issues are about).....cos THEY are the risks...not us....cos they have control over our balances...and can seize or freeze them any time they fee like it.

 

 

In reply to Message (21624.2) Hello fyi - scrub Ikobo from the list too

By Graham (Styx) - gb Wed 05/04/06 14:23:43 GMT

Website:


Both Moneybookers and Ikobo wrote to us in the same way.
In reply to Message (21624) Happy Apology to customer Marc

By Liquidladies/Waterlogged Production - weinerking@bellsouth.net us Wed 05/04/06 08:01:47 GMT

Website: www.liquidladies.org


  Just a note a week  ago or so we noticed cancellations on StormPay.com.  We  did  investigations and  found  that  Storm Pay and not Marc was to blame.  

 

   To all customers ordering   from the Liquidladies site.   YOU  CANNOT  use  storm Pay  any more.  They  have  discontinued their collection service and  will only  do  auction sites  now...   whoop  dee  dooo...  So     Liquidladies only  offers payments with pay pal  for  DVD's members  services  and  ordering  video clips,  while  you  can  use  merchants  account  with  your  Visa or M/C   to  order  any  item  EXCEPT  PPV  clips...These  can  only  be  ordered  with PayPal  now...

 

   Again  we  are  sorry  for the  inconvienience to our customers  and to Marc  especially....

 

                        Waterlogged  Productions   2006

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