Wetlook World Forum

Message # 1554.4.2.1.1

Subject: Re: Re: You probably weren't going to anyhow, but...

Date: Mon 30/12/02 23:20:08 GMT

Name: ChainsawJohn

Email: chainsawjohn@hotmail.com

Website:

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com Mon 30/12/02 09:17:10 GMT

Website:

My voting would be more along the lines of production values, business practices, work ethic, regularity of serving the customers, range of different media...not my personal preferences for pantyhose scenes...ha ha.....and there is certainly no other company that is as active and prolific (and global) than Crazy Girls is. Heck, for starters you are the only company running an active studio for customers to interact with the models, the only company offering wam vacation trips...I cannot think of any company more prolific that yours.

As for the current WAM Awards...I must admit I gave my votes to Leonmoomin this time, cos as you stated...it was more about being a popularity contest ...not a measure of production qualities and a true measure of who offers the best products and services.

Personally, I found it to be astounding that the UMD folks and voters are so short sighted and only seem to see all these "new" sites that have only appeared on the scene in the last 1-2 years, while totally forgetting the true giants in the wam industry...i.e. people like Bill Shipton, Mike Ellison, Roger Carpenter....and how anybody cannot consider giving Mr Rob Blaine a posthumus award...it beats me. Have the folks on UMD got such a short memory...that they have forgotten that Rob Blaine was the man who started it all in the USA, with Bill, Roger, David and others doing the same thing in the UK and Europe. Rob and Bill Shipton should be in the Hall of Fame already.

It is rather like Rod Stewart situation...who refuses to attend the Grammy Awards any more....cos he is a legend in the music industry, yet they have never deemed to recognize him with a grammy in his entire career....cos thats a short sighted awards program than only recognizes who is the one hit wonder of the month and most popular new artist...not who has made the most impact on the music industry.

The webmasters and wam producers like us are big enough and ugly enough not to care about this awards system.

The people I feel a little sorry for are like Brian said...some of the hardworking models who spend a lot of time providing great materials and service to their fans.

The reality is Brian...many of the people who email their support to your models and mine....are very private people...who do not like to speak up on the forums. Your Morgan is no different to my leading model Tracie....many people email her every day to say how much they enjoy her work....most of them were not even aware about this awards thing or the nomination process. I only found out about it myself last week...when Leonmoomin ask for my support...others on UMD who have racked up all these votes....have been campaiging for nearly a month...whereas others like only found out about it...after the nominations period was already closed. Personally, I refuse to campaign or to attempt to buy votes by offering people stuff...cos an award only means something if the voters were genuine in casting their vote, and not merely begging for free pics like performing seals.

I think that Chainsaw Jack has a credibility problem with the way this whole thing has been administered. IP address controls don't work...look at the corruption and abuse that has taken place. I would give more creedence if voters were made to REGISTER..and provide some unique data...such a website domain...(not an email address...cos we all have 10 email account names).

Another way to curtail too much vote fraud is....make everybody why wants to vote...register with Chainsaw Jack and they must pay a registration fee of $1 per vote...that would be donated to charity (your Argentina charity would be good cause)...so instead people voting madly with their fingers as many times as they can hit a keyboard,...let them vote with their hearts instead...cos if they really want to vote 100 times for their favorite model...THEN FINE...then you pay $100 to the wam awards charity via paypal to buy those 100 votes for that girl,

I would support that idea...i.e. a voting system whereby every vote that was cast...would be $1 going to a charity. Then the award winners will know they ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING...because whatever they did...i.e. campaigning, begging, pleading, giving free pics and stuff...meant that they raised all that money for charity. So then the award would have MEANING....i.e. you raised the most money for charity.

MK

By crazygirlsbrian - webmaster@crazygirlsinternational.com Mon 30/12/02 07:08:18 GMT

Website: http://www.crazygirlsinternational.com

At first I was a little put out that none of the members who always emailed Morgan and a few of our other models telling them how great they are had bothered to nominate them.

Before anyone says that this is because we didn't get nominated, I did not display a sign when Shannon was nominated for best model on another awards site a few years ago, nor do I display the awards we won (the two main awards).

Now I see webmasters able to nominate their own sites or models (I refused), the constant bickering, the vote bribing, the voting irregularities (fixed ISPs v dial-ups), the fact that some little known sites who have made a comparitively small contribution to wam are soaring ahead of the main wam sites in some categories, I am glad we aren't in it (apart from best membership value where our name is mis-spelt)

The problem with all votes of this nature is that the public nearly always vote for the latest thing.  Consistent contributors over years always get taken for granted.   Examples are the various votes for people of the century just before the millenium.  Nearly all the winners in all categories were recent stars, even if their contribution to music, politics, the arts or whatever was just a one hit wonder.

MKs idea was great.  If we have to have something as divisive as awards, let it be an award worth having, not a "who is most popular this week?" contest.

By MK - wamtec@compuserve.com Mon 30/12/02 05:26:23 GMT

Website:

It reminds me of going to Mardi Gras....where it boggles my mind why people seem to go nuts....fighting to get these silly bead necklaces that are worth nothing...ha ha.

The real winners are not the people who have been nominated or win the awards...it's the fans who like to see lots of pics, cos the nominees are tripping over themselves and going apeshit to woo all their fans...so as a scheme to get the producers to pay more attention to serving their fans....it has certainly been been a huge success on that level.

Of course, the only way to run an awards program with some integrity would be to fashion things after the Oscars (not like the Viewers Choice Awards)...i.e. several things would need to change before those awards could have any meaning or integrity....i.e.

1) voting tallies should be sealed and not published. All the corruptions taking place are due to human nature and folks seeing what he scores are...and then trying to manipulate the scores....this voting info should never be revealed to the public. If the results are not shown, then folks will not act in such a corrupt and dishonest manner to rig the system or offer bribes to their fan bases.

2)The only movie awards that have true meaning, are the Oscars. The Oscars are the only trophies that are valued by Hollywood folks...because those are votes cast by people who are their peers...not the general public. Viewers Choice or fan based awards are just for fun...a nice dinner and a night on the town...but the awards have no value or meaning.

The way to stop all this IP address abuse would be to a) not publish the ongoing results, and b) not use IP addresses as a controlling mechanism....use website domain names as the voter registration records....i.e. only allow people to vote who have their own website domain name (cos they are peers who produce things themselves) and it must be proper *.com domain name (not freespace web address). That way, the awards any person would get would really mean something...cos the votes would come (only once) from somebody else who has a proper web domain address and is a peer in their field.

but then....if this is just for fun....just carry on as you are doing...I am sure somebody can write a cgi script that can post one vote every 10 seconds if they hack the site.

but what I said makes sense....if you want integrity, then results should not be revealed, they should be kept sealed...and the only people voting should be registered voters who register their website domain name as the voter registration record (not using IP addresses as a voter registration ID).

MK

By Jim - jim121272@aol.com Mon 30/12/02 00:52:05 GMT

Website: www.wetlookunlimited.fws1.com

The point is being somehow missed here. Voters should take into consideration factors such as how long has the recipient been CONSISTENTLY making contributions to the community, rather than how many photos can be crammed onto the site during the last week of voting. We shouldn't be BUYING votes with the promise of free pictures; the idea is exactly the opposite -- the community should cast their votes for those who have contributed THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, whether it's pictures, videos, stories, or whatever else. Behavior like this is immature and merely cheapens the award. It also begs the question: if the candidates will only give out material in exchange for votes...and they LOSE the award...will material be WITHHELD in a similar manner, as a punishment to those who didn't cast votes in their direction?

Now that I've voiced my opinion (and likely opened a can of worms!), Happy New Year!

Jim