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Message # 13634.3.1.1

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Repost of Reply: For those who never ran a page

Date: Sun 12/12/04 20:41:14 GMT

Name: AnthonyX

Email: anthonyx@jowc.net

Website:

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Shadow,

I think you need to re-examine your position.

Let's start with your remark about the good ol' days when everything was free. Stop for a minute and think about WHY it was free. A LOT of expensive technology was being developed and deployed, and you were shielded from its true cost. It was free for a reason - to get people just like you oriented toward the internet as a universal communication medium and as a platform for a new economy. Ultimately, the price of all that technology has to be paid. Otherwise, it would be like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. hand out computers and related gadgets for free. Then there's the content. When you hire models, buy clothes, rent facilities, lease web space, shoot pictures and/or videos and then give it all away for free, you will earn the right to complain about the end of the good ol' free days of the internet.

As for the expectation when you subscribe to a service... Yes, as a paying consumer, you have a right to expect something in return for the money you spend. However, you also have to bear in mind that you get what you pay for, and have no reason to expect anything more. If you are not happy with what you get, you can always terminate your subscription. If you do like it, then your continued financial support is just what the producer needs to keep doing more. Although I have no direct experience of this, I do believe that a great deal of energy and creativity is expended on finding ways to get something for nothing, at the expense of hard-working producers. In other words, I believe the theft you refer to is rampant, and producers have every right to take all reasonable measures to discourage it.

And finally, with regard to your closing words... it's his site and his choice what he does with it and for what reasons. If he's pissed over people ripping him off, I should think he's got good reason to be. If he chooses to shut down his site entirely, just cuz he's not in the mood to post some new pics, that's his perogative also. It's quite something to see fan bases develop, but fans (remember it's a contraction of the word "fanatic") often forget that they are placing significant demands on another person who has a host of realities to deal with, and doesn't need the added pressure.

Let him do what he chooses to do, and how he chooses to do it. If you like it, pay the man what he asks. If you don't, say "no thank you" and move on. Unless you believe he's acted in bad faith (ie tried to rip you off), there's really nothing you need say beyond "thank you". Simple, yes?

In reply to Message (13634.3.1)

Re: Re: Repost of Reply: For those who never ran a page

By shadow - Sun 12/12/04 15:10:11 GMT

Website:

I just want to add this. I dont want to be looked at as one of the complainers and having people say. Shut up and make your own pictures.

If something is free. I would never ever said anything. But as soon as it is a pay service. The rules changes. People should be able to demand something back from their money. The greed is not in the customers. But unfortunately it has struck some of the producers.

Internet is still in its childhood. I remember the days when everything was free.. its getting much more professional now and within some years only the most professional sites will survive. I sure hope to see wetlook sites and I will support them. But please do not close down 80 % of your site and tell people you did it cause you are mad because people are not members permanently.

Shadow

In reply to Message (13634.3)

Re: Repost of Reply: For those who never ran a page

By shadow - Sun 12/12/04 15:03:34 GMT

Website:

I know I will be flamed for this post, but I hope people respect that we have different views and that we should speak up even if we are not only positive to the producers.

I have been on and off wetlook university a few times. But not because I wanted to suck off all the pictures. I payed my bill and enjoyed a few visits where I looked for jeans pictures (thats all that interests me..) I cant afford to be a member of lots of pages so I rotate between the pages I like. Your page used to be good.

The desicion about limiting pictures because some people are just a member for a month or less is totaly unprofessional especially since you actually allow one month subscription.

Some of you people who runs wetlook sites needs to be more professional. Most of you charge way to much for crap pictures. Some of you for very low amount of pictures. Some for good pictures, and Wetlook university was one of them. Good pictures. But then...

Everybody that has signed up, wheter its for one month only or been loyal (your words) should be considered supporting you. You seem to belive that all people that are not permanent members are greedy ones sucking you for pictures.

Some of the wetlook producers seems to think everybody steals from them. And they flame people. Blocking IPs (even though most ips are dynamical and changes all the time on most visitors).

Go to a page called www.hegre-archives.com. Learn from it. Its not wetlook. But its professional. With a professional attitude. And there are 1000s of high quality pictures if you pay. And they dont rip you off for a few pictures...

Being a member of so many wetlook sites. And really supporting many with this. I have found very few sites actually worth being a member off. So far Styx has proven to me to be of highest quality, and if it had not been for very few jeans pictures in there, I would have been a member on a more permanent basis. But if you like dresses and so on Styx is the best site.

Wetlook university has some of the best wet jeans pictures I have seen. And if it is unlocked again like it used to be I will be a member every now and then. But I cant prommise to be a permanent member. Unfortunately I cant afford that.. but if the amount of wet jeans pictures had increased and there had been a little more variety to them I would have considered it.

Shadow

In reply to Message (13634)

Repost of Reply: For those who never ran a page

By WetlookU - webmaster@wetlookuniversity.com Sun 12/12/04 12:02:06 GMT

Website: http://www.wetlookuniversity.com

I can't say I agree or disagree but here is my side of it...

For those of you that have never run a site, it's not all fun and games. To be honest, I began Wetlook University as a offshoot of another page I have maintained and run for years(FhuckedNikes). Being in the fortunate position I was at the time, I was dating a few girls that enjoyed and wanted to do these photos for the hell of it and they had a blast. So did I.

I began that page in mid 1998 and ran it free until around late 2000 or early 2001. Yes, I ran it FREE. But as most of you know, that was about the time that the day of "free" webspace came to an end without either 15 pop-ups per page, a 1-5Mb space limit and so on. I made a decision to keep the page running and began using a "paid" server space. At that point, I began memberships only at $7.95 to help with expenses. Yes, it made money.. I think the first year, around $600.00. Sure, I enjoyed it, the girls enjoyed it ( Sometimes more than I did ) and it was fun.

There came a time in 2002 when I was "single" again and it left me with few options. Close the page and be done with it or to actually hire models. With the support of members, the little money it WAS bringing, and with a hope, I chose to try and keep it open. In the fall of 2002 I ended up hiring a few girls from the local University here to keep FhuckedNikes running. The girls enjoyed it, I still had the page up and running, and it was still fun. It brought on an expense that I had never had before but it was still ahead a few dollars.

I had always been a wetlook fan (I guess since the age of 8 or so) and I asked the girls if they would like to try it. They said it sounded like fun and we decided to give it a try. In the late fall or early Winter of 2002 I began to shoot photo sets and video for what is now Wetlook University. At the time, the wetlook pages that concentrated on Jeans, sneakers and casual tops were far and few between. I made a decision at the time that that was what I was going to concentrate on. I figured if I was going to do this, at least I personally would try and get some enjoyment out of it. I knew there was a market for it and I went with it. Of course over the last 6 months to 1 year, many have joined that line of thinking. I have added some dressier outfits over time but my main concentration remains on the casual look.

In February of 2003, Wetlook University was officially opened. Another "paid" server cost, models being paid by the hour and outfits being purchased, ect. When you get these models, they are usually not the same size. So for even the first 3 models, I go shopping. Let's say you just start out with 5 outfits for each girl. You've spent $100-$150 for each girl on clothes, If you are like me, you buy brand name sneakers at a cost of $25-$100 a pair, 3 to 4 pairs for each girl and now you have 3 different size feet to cover. So just in that alone you have an average of $1000 in 5 outfit with 12 to 16 pairs of sneakers laying around.

With the advice of someone in this community, I was told that wetlook was just the tip of the WAM iceburg and suggested I add messy photo sets. He's worked with MK, Rob Blaine and others so it sounded reasonable. I again asked the girls if they would be interested and they again said it sounded different but fun and we gave it a go. I began to add messy photo sets in on Wetlook University but trying to be fair, I didn't think it was fair to the members I had. They had signed up for "wetlook" and not messy. If you were a member then, you got full access to both pages for the same amount you were paying before. In February of 2004 Messy University began. Another server was set up and more cost came.

There came a time where the few models from the university wasn't enough. I began getting other local talent and girls from all over the country. Some of these girls command larger $'s. I feature girls that have been on magazine covers, films, featured on Howard Stern and so on. I decided I wanted to make this work and continued on.

Now I was getting calls from different girls that wanted to join in. Some at $100 an hour. Each time we shoot, it takes between 2 and 3 hours. Again, these girls don't come in a mold. I have girls from 5'0 to 5'11 in height, from 18 to 35 in age, from size 0 jeans and XXS tops to size 13 jeans and medium or large tops, Size 5 to size 11 shoes. Each time a new girl comes over, You can count on 4 or 5 outfits to be purchased for HER to use, not counting what she uses of her own, you have several pairs of shoes from $25-100 a pair to have ready, You're going to pay her $200-$300 for that shoot so you do have a bit invested. Although I live in the desert, it's not always 105 degrees here so you heat the pool. For last month, my gas bill was over $400. If you don't continuosly heat the pool, I have determined over the years, you spend about $100 per session to heat it. It takes about 1 1/2 days to heat the pool from around 50 degrees to 84 to 86 to keep the girls comforable. If they aren't comforable and happy, it shows. With this in mind, each time a new girl shows up for a shoot, you have spent $600-$700and if she cancels and has to shoot the next week, you've spent $100 to heat the pool for nothing. If you are going to do messy sets, you also head off to buy $150 to $300 in sloppy, gooey stuffz.

I'm not sure how many will agree with this statement but by now, my hobby, my enjoyment, my fun has turned into a "job". I didn't need another full time job. After the model leaves, it's not over. You've (And your video person if you are shooting video) have already spent 3 or 4 hours. Then I spend another 3 or 4 hours after the girl leaves on her merry way. I upload the photos to the computer, I have to compress them (If I didn't with the resolution we use, they are 500 to 700Mb each), Rename each photo for each set, create thumbnails for each photo, Watermark each photo (I had to begin that in 2003 as my photos began to show up as someone elses work or"Found on the net"), Upload each of the photos and thumbnails to the server, Create a page for each photo set, and so on.

That's 8 or 9 hours for me on the day of a shoot but it doesn't stop there. I spend 2 hours or so on updates of the 3 pages each time an update is done, I spend time to post preview or "teaser" picts to a few of the message boards and web sites. I'll spend a couple hours on and off most days adding new members or going through the database removing old ones or ones that the subscription has expired. I've spend a few hours here and there shopping for outfits for the girls, buying messy slop for messy shoots, setting up custom request or photo shots, ect.

In that short amount of time, I have had to change servers several times for different reasons. I've run out of space before ( I now have over 8gigs of files on line), I've been booted for "adult" content, I've been shut off for "Over Useage" although I signed up for "unlimited" accounts. I've had severs crash and have to re-upload ALL 8 gigs, I've had my sever TWICE change DNS entry for unknown reasons and then not tell me and again, lost all the files. When that happens, I've had members start emailing bitching or jumping me for not being able to access the page. Obviously I understand but I try to get it back running ASAP but you can only upload so fast.

All the while the money flows in I guess. Speaking of which, Paypal cut me off which wasn't a help at all. Actually it was a big hassle.. But now I accept Credit Cards directly along with Checks online. I love it when a member has been on 3 or 4 months, THEN reports the card as a "fraudulent" use. I am charged back not only the membership for 3 or 4 months but also a $25.00 "chargeback" fee for each one. So this person receive the web page for 3 or 4 months, and then cost me $100 to boot. As for the checks... I am a trusting person. Most check have been fine but others sign up for ONE MONTH, use a ficticious checking account number, and of course the check bounces which charges me another $5.00 in bank charges. I've had one brain try and sign up several times by check after 2 have already bounced and uses different account numbers.. Like I can't see that coming. In that case, you block their IP and move on. Okay... So now I still take the risk but hold the account opening for 10 days. You would think that was enough. NO. Just this week, I had a check "returned" on 12/10/04 for $219.95 that was deposited on 11/17/04. How can THAT happen? Okay.. So he got a couple free weeks to 2 web sites and cost me a $5.00 bank charge. Whether anyone knows, if you continue to deposit checks of this type, the bank will either close your account or at minimun begin to place a hold on all funds deposited for 5 to 10 days.

Over time, I have even had to chang my photo sets policy. At one point, just on Wetlook University I had over 6000 photos at 1280x960 resolution and over 80 photo sets. What do you get for that? Again, I really try to be as fair as I can. I have members who have BEEN members since almost day one. Paying their memberships each month and enjoying my content. Then you have those that try and "cheat" the system. They sign up for a One Month membership and suck off almost 2 years of content for the current price of $17.95 and then cancel. Some have even been a little nicer about it by signing up at least once every 3 or 4 months to suck down those photo set that many have continued to pay for the entire time. Does that seem fair? I don't think so. Not only do I not think it's fair to me, I CERTAINLY don't think it's fair to those who have been loyal and paid every month as support to me and Wetlook University. Beginning in September, I removed all the older sets and leave only the most recent 10 photo sets online. Since then, I have had many complaints. I've people cancel due to it. The older sets ARE available for purchase by members at this time. Is that fair? I thought so. If you wanted to see Christine in wet overalls of Destiny get messy and nude, why did you wait 6 months after those sets were posted? I have actually had people TELL me that! They signed up for a photo set that was almost a year old.

I've even had one person, Look up my web registration, Got the address off of it and showed up at my Old House and address the page was registered under. He even went as far as getting the IP address of one of the models and told me what town she lived in.. That's F***ed up.

Yes.. I get money off memberships. But there are expenses involved also. Most of you wouldn't spend the hours I spend (or others) for the amount of "income" if you break it down per hour.

I'm not the shark in this pond.. I am a guppie. Maybe I should fold too. I've made enough to retire now. Maybe I should spend the hours I do and the thousands of dollar and just post it for free. I guess my post would get more response then. If you had a chance to look at my records, you would find the girls made more from this venture than I have.

I admit.. I don't give to this forum as maybe I should. There are folks like Nigel,Leon, MK, Southern Charms girls and so on that give much more. Yes, I do give a few pictures, "teasers" or previews when I do an update. Yes, I had people bitch or gripe that they wanted FULL SIZE preview photos on the preview section of my page to see what they were getting. I did just that by adding 2 full size examples of each set. When I post photos here, I don't splatter "SAMPLE ONLY" or "Join us now for the real pictures", Groups of small thumbnails on one large photo and so on. When I DO post preview picts, It usually is 3 off the set. If I have a 50 photo set, how many frebies should I give? 10? 30? I guess most think the way you do and the post gets little or no response.

I'll get off my box now. Either I was stupid for responding or one of the few with nuts enough to say some of this.

I hope all have a VERY HAPPY HOLIDAY!!!!!

Carl

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